Many entrepreneurs struggle with creating effective lead magnets. Having a process for niche research ensures that your lead magnet attracts the right customers and provides enough value for your customer to want to give you their email address. When your lead magnet is valuable, clear, and effective, you grow your email list faster and have a pool of customers you can sell to. Our guest today, Barbara Carneiro, is a communication and branding strategist who talks about how to research to create an effective lead magnet and the key ingredients in a lead magnet that will increase your visibility and authority in your industry.
As a freelancer, knowing how to research and create valuable lead magnets is a skill that will significantly increase your service offering as a copywriter.
More About Barbara Carneiro
Barbara is the founder of Word Revolution (a communication and branding agency for Christian ministries) and the brain behind The Church Communicator Bootcamp (a training program for accidental church communicators). She is a Christ-follower, forever curious strategist, minimalist designer, storyteller, and geek, and you can make her happy with a white chocolate mocha.
Resources From Today’s Show
Connect with Barbara: https://www.barbaracarneiro.com/
Hi friends. Thanks for joining me on the show today. We have a great guest that I'm excited to introduce you to today because many entrepreneurs struggle with creating effective lead magnets. Having a process for niche research ensures that your lead magnet attracts the right customers and provides enough value for your customer to want to give you their email address. When your lead magnet is valuable, clear, and effective, you grow your email list faster and have a pool of customers that you can always sell to our guests today. Barbara Carneiro is a communication and brand strategist who talks about how to do the research to create an effective lead magnet and some key ingredients that lead magnets need to increase your visibility and authority in your industry. As a freelancer, knowing how to do the research and create valuable lead magnets is a skill that will greatly increase your service offering as a copywriter. Let's listen in on my conversation with Barbara, who is the founder of word revolution, a communication and branding agency for Christian ministries and the brain behind the church communicator bootcamp, which is a training program for accidental church communicators. I love how you put that Barbara. She is a Christ follower, forever curious strategist, minimalist designer, storyteller, and geek that you can make happy with a white chocolate mocha. I think you're going to enjoy this conversation with Barbara. Let's dive in,
Hey, there entrepreneurs you're in the right place. If you were a business owner who started your business to work less hours while making more money, but found yourself spending too much time on copy that doesn't convert content. That leaves you feeling like you don't know what to write or marketing that isn't making you money. This is the school of copy and messaging podcast, where we believe that entrepreneurs shouldn't have to waste their time creating copy and marketing that doesn't grow their income. I'm your host, Amber Glus. And on this show, I'll be your guide to creating copy that converts readers to customers and marketing that improves your sales. So your business grows faster while you work less, grab that laptop or pin it's copy time. Thank you so much for joining me today. I'd like to just get started with you talking about what it is that you do, who you are and who your business serves.
Uh, well, my name is Barbara and I own word revolution, which is a marketing agency for churches and Christian ministries. And, uh, also I have a course for, uh, church communicators. Uh, so you know, anybody that is related to marketing or communications in the church, um, I serve them mostly by training. So my, my goal is to actually develop that part of my business a little bit more. And that's what I've been focusing these days. Awesome.
Great. Well, that sounds wonderful. Why, how, how did you get into this industry? I'm just a little curious. I think it's always interesting to hear
About the journey other entrepreneurs have taken because it encourages others as they find their way in their own business. Yeah. Uh, well, you know, I've, I've been in marketing and communications for quite a while. That's my, that's been my degree and it's always been something I'm very passionate about. So I've been an agency owner since 2001, uh, kind of made it official, you know, when you actually have an LLC and all of that in 2005. Um, so it's been, it's been a long journey so far, and, um, I've worked with as many different industries you can think of. Um, eventually I came to faith about 10 years ago, 11 years now. And, uh, it just became a passion of mine to start serving the church. Um, I didn't really know how to go about it. So it started like, okay, well my pastor, Hey, can I help with something? And then it kind of evolves from there, uh, where, you know, my pastor would introduce me to another pastor and I kinda got a sense of how the industry or the sector works. Um, and that has been little by little something that, um, more and more, you know, of like, in some point in time I decided this is it. I'm just going to focus on this particular industry, this niche, and then focus on it and then dedicate my time to it, to understand them and to serve them. Yeah.
Awesome. Well, sometimes I think as business owners, we always get to a point where you kind of have to just jump. Like there's a lot of faith involved in business sometimes, you know, clarity comes to later. I find after the jump of faith, a lot of times that's not always how we would like it, but that's usually how it works.
Yeah. Yeah. And that's how it was for me, Amber in two 13. So I had been kind of doing these little side gigs for my church and a couple of other churches I knew. And, um, in two 13, I remember clearly thinking to myself and saying to myself, um, it's time. Like I need to even rename I company. It had a different name before. Uh, and so that's how I became word revolution. Uh, and uh, I remember being at my computer and, and saying to myself, okay, I need to tell my clients, this is what I'm doing now and why I couldn't hide the why I fell. It was really strong in my heart that I had to say, you know, Hey, I'm, uh, you know, I came to faith, I know Jesus. And this is what I believe X, Y, and Z. Right? So I remember sitting at the computer, writing this letter to all my clients and thinking, oh man, they're gonna, they're, they're gonna stop working with me.
There's no way they're going to continue. And you got to remember, this is all a bunch of random people, random industries. I have no idea of their faith bath. Right. And I was, I was confident that I was going to send this email and lose my business overnight. And what happened was the complete opposite. So I had clients now actually congratulate me for how, you know, for the bravery for saying, wow, Barbara, it took a lot of courage to tell all of your clients, why are you doing this? And I'm also a believer. So now I'm like, whoa, there's a bunch of my clients that are actually believers as well. And they started introducing me to their pastors and to their, you know, boards of directors for the nonprofit they were serving at. And I'm like, I think I just gained a whole bunch of referrals overnight. Wow.
How cool. That's really great.
Well, let me tell you, when I hit Sam, I closed my computer and I thought, this is it. My business is dead. Right, right.
It's amazing what God will do to it when we, when we give it to him, that's really neat. I'm so glad to hear that. Well, today's conversation Barbara is we're talking about niche research and lead magnet ideas. But before we get into researching a niche as a business owner, can we first talk to anyone in the audience who is searching for their own niche? Cause I think that applies to some people listening. Do you have any suggestions for their own research or someone who hasn't really chosen their own niche yet?
Yeah. So I know this is the tough decisions to make. I've been there before. I remember thinking the church was just my passion niche and I had to had something else going on at the same time. Um, I've, I've had the fear of, oh, there's no money there or I shouldn't even charge for it because it's for the kingdom. So there's a lot of fear that comes with picking a niche. And then the idea of like all of your eggs in the same basket. Um, and, uh, the fear of getting a, what if I'm bored after a while, if I don't want to work with the same type of industry, you know, after 3, 4, 5 clients. Um, but, but here's what I know. Um, there's a, a lot of information out there. There's an overload of information that we're all being affected by. And there's just a different way that our brains are now reacting to that information than we used to 10, 20 years ago.
And so there's so much coming at us that our brains are forced to filter. Um, for our own sanity. We have no other options. Our brains are now or have been trained to look at something and immediately ask, what is this? Who is this for? And why do I get you don't even realize you're doing those three things, but your brain is constantly answering those questions when it's exposed to any ads or advertisement or billboard, whatever that may be any sort of information, right? I mean, talk about scrolling, right? We have a fish scroll never ends. So you're constantly getting, you know, checking the next thing and the next thing and the next thing. So it's never a, you know, I've achieved kind of feeling, uh, we lost that. So now in this overflow of information, our brains are forced to pick. So this means that the people on the other side of you are constantly asking themselves this question, you know, what is it?
Who is it for? What do I get, if you want, you're telling them is not clear. You just become invisible. You're basically going to be yet another noise in the midst of all of the other noises that they're receiving. Right? Yeah. Why is retargeting been so successful with things like, you know, Facebook or YouTube is because they're not targeting to you? What matters to you in that particular moment? Uh, and that's how advertisement has changed over time. It's no longer mass distribution. It's about personalization and giving you in the right moments, not just being personal as much as it is like it has to be the perfect timing for you, Amber, when you go on Facebook. So anyway, uh, going a little bit on a tangent here, but getting back to the niche, it's, it's more about having the freedom to be intentional than actually excluding people.
So a lot of the things that I hear sometimes is like, well, if I say, I only work with churches, then the pool builder next door is never going to contact me. And that is not necessarily true. So, uh, the people that you're getting right now, wherever the, the, those are coming to you will continue to come to you because there's a high chance they're coming to you by referral, by word of mouth. Um, you know, so there's a great sense of trust that happens at that level. And they're not really wondering like, oh, she just works with churches now. I'm not going to bug her. I didn't lose any of my clients because I now have a niche. Um, but I'm now able to intentionally pursue people that have a problem that I can solve. So, uh, there's a lot of resistance. Um, many people that I speak to, uh, will always bring me that like, well, what if I get bored? What if I don't like it? What if I change it? Nothing is preventing you from working with a different industry, six months down the road, right? So you can actually explore a couple of ideas and see how much momentum you gain. But what I've seen is the minute people start gaining momentum in a niche, there's a tendency for them to do the opposite, which is to really embrace it, you know?
Yeah. I think that's very true. Well, once we've identified that niche, how do we start to do that research in it to identify the pain points, the problems we're solving and the struggles that we can address that we have.
Right. I always recommend, uh, you know, even when you're doing a research, as far as like, which one do I go after, uh, start with niches that you somehow familiar with. Uh, so, you know, I wouldn't, let me be honest with you. There was a time when I was just looking for my niche and I thought, oh, tattoo shops. Why not? Let me look at me. Right. Right.
Why not? And they need marketing to,
I don't even know what cross that crossed my mind. I really did. And I don't know if it was just a matter of like, well, they're not any agencies working with that to show. I don't know. I just know that in some point in time it crossed my mind, but he has a realization that's kind of a funny, you know, uh, antidote. But, um, I don't nothing about that industry. I don't know anybody that works in that industry. I don't really understand that well. And so I would recommend start with the ones that, you know, and the first thing I did was I'm going to list down all of the industries that I either know or have worked with or know somebody in it that I can actually ask questions. So, you know, write them down. And then all you have to do is literally exclude the ones that you absolutely don't want to work with or figure out which one is number 1, 2, 3, 4, are there like two or three that you absolutely love?
Well, just put them in order. Which one are you going to go after first? Where do you want to serve first? Where do you want to connect with first? Um, and so the research then after that moment after you realize, okay, these are the industries I'm somewhat familiar with, um, start with the people, you know, you know, maybe I've worked for speaker in the past and talk to that speaker. Uh, maybe I have a, you know, a cousin that owns a barbershop then ask, you know, talk to him and figure out what, what is, um, particular about that industry? Maybe I know someone that is a, um, a consultant I can speak to that person and ask questions about. And here the, the main areas I would touch, um, what kind of conferences do you attend? Uh, what kind of books do you read? What kind of blogs do you follow?
What kind of podcasts do you listen to? Because that will give you a little bit of an understanding of how the industry itself works. Um, then you have other people that will niche out. So for example, you can have a niche that is specific to, um, a piece of software, right? I can say, Hey, I only do websites in WordPress, or I only do Shopify websites, or I only do whatever that may be. Um, so you can have a niche that doesn't necessarily mean an industry. Um, but at the end of the day, you're going to have to find someone that is already there, that you can somewhat interview ask questions and maybe potentially even partner with.
Okay. Very good. Very, very practical. I love that. So once we've done that now, what are the elements of a great lead magnet when we're actually building the lead magnet after we've done the research?
Right. Uh, I love to collect their language. Um, I actually always recommend is one of the first things that I'll tell people to do is create a document where you can start writing down the type of language to think that you hear them say, and here's what will trigger language, um, things like, you know, pet peeves about the industry. What is it that makes you mad about the way things are done in your industry? What are the things that you wish you could change when they express their frustrations or desires? That's the language will come up. So I'll give you some examples of my own niche, speaking to, um, you know, the directors of, uh, Christian nonprofits often very, very often I would ask them, Hey, you know, what is it that keeps you up at night? Uh, what is it about, you know, leading a nonprofit that is upsetting to you or that I don't know, it makes you frustrated.
Um, and I w I will actually ask them, what's the greatest pet peeve about your industry. And they will say things like, I mean, we're just so tired of the trial and error. Okay. So trial and error, this is something that they're using as something that you're saying, we haven't cracked the code. We haven't figured out how to get people to donate on a monthly basis. We haven't, whatever that may be. So you hearing the problem, but you also hearing how they express those problems, what kind of language they use, create a document every time you're in a phone call, every time you reading, um, a blog or a podcast, whatever that may be, that you hear a piece of, you know, how they express those things, write it down. I actually have my whole team with access to that document. So they can also capture those things, uh, screenshot, you know, like Facebook groups, you have a lot of conversations.
You can actually lead those conversations by asking those questions in groups, with the people that you're trying to speak to and get a sense of what is, what it is that keeps them up at night. So the language, in my opinion is the first step. Once you understand what kind of problems or issues they have, then you need to solve what, in my opinion, suns, I mean, there's like four main problems or four main types of pain points. And so you're trying to do one of four things sometimes more than one, uh, reduce stress, save money, save time, or make money. Most of the time, I would say people in a specific niche are trying to solve one of these things. There are other, trying to save money, save time, make money, or reduce stress. So w what category do you fit in? I know for example, for my clients, most of the time, what I'm trying to do is save them time in reducing stress, because leading the, you know, just leading a communications department for a nonprofit is a full-time job.
And it's normally done by someone that just has that extra hat, and then, you know, they can do something else and also communications, um, for, uh, I dunno, just, just picture a speaker, if I'm helping a speaker, most likely I'm trying to make that person make money. Right. So if I can understand the pain point, then it's easier for me to create a lead magnet that answers that pain point, that, that will give a solution that is specific. Um, let me give you some ideas that I actually got from, uh, some of my clients I'm tired, tired of the trial and error, so I can create a lead magnet that gives them, gives them a strategy, something that they can, um, you know, basically look at the steps and say, okay, I'm going to do step 1, 2, 3, and four. It's going to be repeatable. I can train my team to do it.
Now. We no longer have trial and error. We're going to do these tasks and we're going to do them well. Um, another one is the need to automate tasks. A lot of nonprofits are operating on a lot of manual repetitive tasks that some administrative is doing, and it's, it's eating up a lot of their time. So how can I help them by simply saying, Hey, let's look at your process. Let's automate some tasks and let's bring in technology to help you with some of these things. So now I'm solving that problem in a very specific way. So if I can give them a checklist of, Hey, these are the five pieces of software that you need to automate your tasks, that a nonprofit that would be a solution to, you know, engaging with them at the level. That makes sense to them. Uh, I love when business owners have the time and capacity to do interviews with their potential, um, clients, because that will give you a real understanding of where they are, but I know that's not feasible for many people.
And the truth is you have to actually get on those calls and, you know, it's a long process. Some people don't even want to have to make those calls, but maybe a survey, if you have a Facebook group, you can ask those questions right there. And then you can test out those lead magnets in those same groups or surveys by saying, Hey, which one of these would be most valuable to you? Right. So anyway, start with the language. That means you need to somehow research that language from something, either interviews, surveys, Facebook groups, uh, I mean, there groups in other places, for some reason, I don't, I don't know what other people may be using, but you know what I'm saying? Like, whatever groups you have access to.
Okay. That's very helpful. I love that. I think using the language, especially as important to me, because when your customers see it, it instantly makes them know that you understand what they're going through and they have that connection with you that makes them feel like, okay, this person can solve my problem because they understand it. So I love that you made a point about that. So how often do you feel like we need to do the niche research and update our lead magnet? Like if you've had a lead magnet for two years, is that okay if it's working or should you be constantly kind of looking for what other problems you solve and the lead magnets you could create that would be helpful for your audience?
I think if it's working, it's working, you know, nothing to fix there. Uh, I do believe we have to keep a year out on everything that's going on in here and industry, because there's so many new things there. There's not only access to new tools. They're also out of other experts that are joining the same industry. Uh, so I think it's prudent for us to at least keep an eye on what's happening. But if your lead magnet is working, if it's bringing the leads that you're expecting, then I don't think you need to look headed every, you know, every month or every quarter. Um, but nothing wrong with checking, um, once a year. And here's why I say a year, because it's, I'm, uh, um, I'm hoping that as a business owner, you're looking at your whole strategy on a yearly basis. And so that is going to include looking at whatever assets you have out there, and that's going to be your lead magnet.
Um, that would be the lead magnet will be one of them. Uh, you can have more than one lead magnet. Uh, sometimes an AB test is great. Sometimes you've even like, um, a different platform will require a different type of, of, uh, lead magnet. So you can have something that works on Facebook and then something different on your website. You have something different on your podcasts, whatever that may be. So you could have variations of that lead magnet and see what works. Uh, but once a year, if you're creating a strategy for your, for your business, whatever, even if it's a simple, very simple strategy, it's always good to look at all of your assets. So one of the things that I like to do is look at, okay, what are my goals? How much am I, you know, like, is there a specific number of downloads that I want to have on that lead magnet? Is there a specific number of people that I want to have go through, um, my services. And so if I'm not hitting those goals, then something needs to change, right? If I'm hitting those goals, then that means to your lead magnet is working. And I believe that, um, I mean, some people can have them going for years, always good to assess, but if it's working, you don't have to, um, to worry much in my opinion, you know?
Absolutely. Well, what about if we serve more than one niche, do you recommend each niche that we serve has its own leadership?
Most likely, um, I normally actually will try to discourage you from having more than one niche. And here's why, uh, two niches means twice the resources, twice, everything twice the time, twice the research twice, the, maybe even the website, you probably going to have like two websites and two, you know, so everything's going to be double. That means it's going to take you longer to gain momentum and one of them, um, if for some reason it makes sense to have both, um, then so be it that's okay. Uh, but most likely those two will be diverse. That means most likely the lead magnets will be different. Their languages will be different, which in my opinion, the reason why you have two niches is because they're not the same, right? So there's differences between them. There's different needs, different desires. Uh, so most likely the lead magnet will be different.
Uh, there could be a case where they're similar. So for example, I have a, um, a client that is a publisher and he will turn your ideas into books where they interview you. And then they, uh, write the book for you like a ghost writing service, but they do a very deep interview process to get the book out of you. So you basically speak the book and then on the side, they'd have sermons to book. So they basically turn sermons and the process is very similar, but those two are still two separate niches. One is a publisher, uh, I'm sorry, uh, an author that wants to publish a book and the other one is, uh, a passer, right? So very similar language, very similar services, but the desires are different for the author that wants to publish a book. And the pastor that wants to publish a book. So they have, um, some variations that you can kind of adapt, you know, you can use the same lead magnet, but adapt it to that particular audience by adjusting the language. Okay,
Perfect. That's really, really good. That would apply to me. Cause I, I essentially do have two within one niche of copywriting. I have two audiences, so that's actually really good advice for me. Well, what about, um, the lead magnet itself? Is the design more important? Is the content more important or really are both equally as important?
My vote is content. I think there's a great power in just making it simple. If you can't make it like super pretty and fancy, just make it simple. Right? Uh, I'm downloading it because there's something in there. There's a value for me, unless you're actually giving me the design files in that case, you know, that well designed. But, uh, if not, I would say, I think that there's great power in design. Don't get me wrong. I'm a designer by trade. Um, but it is the content that will make the difference. And I've seen lead magnets that are very well designed. And once you go through it, Amber, there's nothing of value in it. It's just a well-designed PDF and sometimes far longer than it needed to be. You know? So I'd rather, and by the way, people will have a tendency to prefer shorter, uh, documents, um, than really long eBooks.
Like the age of the ebook download. My ebook is gone it's way behind us. So I can give you for example, uh, a couple of, of, uh, bullet points when creating a lead magnet, they have to solve a real problem. Right? You have to be that document or thing they're downloading. It has to be something that makes them go, wow, I had this one problem now I don't. So it has to be something that solves a specific problem. Um, it has to be like a quick win, right? It, it, it's not something that I download now and I have to implement for six months, that's the program, right?
But a lead magnet needs to be something that they can download and they can implement and they get a quick win. Um, it has to be specific. So I, and this is one of the biggest mistakes I've seen. I have these, you know, fancy documents, but they're like, it's just someone talking. It feels like it's just someone going on and on and on. And there's not real, you know, specific things for me to do, um, quick to digest. That's why I'm saying, make it as short as you can almost bullet list, you know, checklist kind of, um, type of document that they can easily just print one sheet of paper. And it's an easy, an easy win. Now I'm not taking away from the value of a multi-page PDF. Okay. So don't hear me saying that all of them need to be one page, um, high value.
It has to be high value. Nobody needs yet another PDF there'll be in there. They stopped for 20 years until they cleaned it up and down in deleted. I've had so many like that, you know, I'll get to it. I'll get to it. Well, if it's high value, I'll get to it right now, right? Yeah, absolutely. Uh, so some people will download things out of FOMO was going to download it and keep L I'll get to it later. But I think I've probably done that a couple of times, but if it doesn't lead you to action right away, that means there's some value there that you did not capture that you weren't unable, or maybe the person didn't have that exact problem that you had, um, it's available instantly, right? You have to be able to get it right away. Uh, and then I, I, in my opinion, these lead magnets should demonstrate your expertise.
You need to be able to reveal a little bit of what you can do. It's almost like a glimpse into, wow. If she's giving this away for free, how much more is there to know in like, you know, so it needs to show your expertise. And this is what I see sometimes fail. I've seen PDFs that I downloaded. There were nothing more than a blog post, right? You could have read it for free. You could have found it somewhere else. It was just post put in, in a PDF format with nice little graphics. So, um, things that you can do to, to, you've got to think outside of the box, um, you know, there's great power in understanding what is unique about that niche. And I'll give you one example of that actually, you know, it was kind of interesting for me. Um, I had a, an agency that I was mentoring and they were working with dentists and one of the lead magnets that they did was to actually create, um, the appointment cards, uh, that dentists would use.
So they basically send them a box of appointment cards for free, and if they wanted to reorder, they would reorder through them. So a picture of this, uh, then to, so one of the few niches out there that would need an appointment card, like a reminder for an appointment card, you know, a pool builder when needed, um, you know, you know what I'm saying? Like only a few services would need it that way. So he was creating a product that, uh, was very specific to his industry. Another one was, um, you know, the, the Pantone pallets, uh, that you can buy, uh, for, you know, like if you were graphic designer, they have like these beautiful pencil and palettes that you actually buy printed. And they're quite expensive. They're very, very expensive. Uh, and so normally people will buy them used on like eBay or something like that.
So in some point in time as a designer, I bought one of those pallets, because if you're printing stuff, you need to have good color management. And in the box with the pallet came a card for SEO services. So I'm thinking, okay, this guy is pretty smart. He selling me something that only an agency, a design agency would buy yeah. A normal, a normal human being wouldn't buy a palette from Pinto. Right. So, you know, they're selling a product on eBay. I use product on eBay that only agencies would buy. And then his lead magnet was the SEO business card. Right. So very smart. You've got to think outside of the box, uh, I mean, I could sell communion cups on eBay. Right. Cause nobody else churches would probably be buying them. Right. Right. I want to speak to churches. I can sell something that only churches are buying, which, which is a very smart technique because you're now selling that you're getting paid to get a lead.
Okay. Very smart. So think outside of the box of the best opportunities for lead magnets or lead magnets to speak to your industry only, that's why it's important to have a niche. Something that doesn't apply to everybody out there, but, but specific to your niche, um, a couple of options that I've seen work really well lists of apps that only your niche with use or would need to use. So if you can say, Hey, here are the 10 apps. Every dentist should have here. The 10 thought pieces of software, every speaker, uh, should be using. Uh, so you can just curate stuff for them. Remember they have no time, just as much as you don't. So right. You can create that list again, it's not a list for everybody. It's a list of apps that dentists with really need or speakers could really use. Right. So
It's a great idea. I love that some good ideas in there to create some lead magnets. So I hope that kind of got everybody's mind turning like it did mine. Cause it made me think of some new ones I could create too. So that's really helpful. Well, Barbara, the purpose of this show is that everyone has a message that matters and we encourage women to share that unique message with the world. Is there a message that you'd like to share with my audience? It can be a quote that you love a scripture, a lesson that you've learned that's important to you, anything like that, that you would like to share with the audience?
Yes. In my business, I don't think anything has had the impact as having a mentor. Um, it has definitely been the one thing that has allowed me to hit milestones that I can reach on my own. Um, it's been the one thing that allowed me to not only dream bigger than I was dreaming before, but I actually, you know, have the motivation and the drive to get there. So if you don't have somebody in this ties into the niche, someone in your niche that is ahead of you, um, that you can kind of walk alongside or, or Hey, would you mentor me? Would you, you know, help me pop the hood and show me what you've done. Um, that would be my greatest recommendation is really to find somebody that has done that that's been there that is already in your industry and can share some ideas, maybe meet for coffee once a month. Or if you have the chance, someone you can actually pay to be a mentor on a more structured way. So
Yeah. So true. I agree with that. It's, it's really nice when you have somebody who's in your industry. Um, I mean it saves time, right? Because you learn the things that they made mistakes on, that they can teach you before you make those same mistakes and it's so valuable. So I agree. That's really great advice. Well, thank you so much, Barbara, for being here. Where can my audience learn more about you and hang out with you?
Yeah. So my website is wordrevolution.com and, uh, that's probably the, the easiest route and I'm also on Facebook. You'll probably find me, uh, under Barbara. Carnero, uh, it's a hard name to spell, but you'll find me other word revolution on, uh, Facebook as well. So, okay.
Well, I will link all of that in the show notes. So it's easy for everybody to find whether they know how to spell your name or not. Barbara, thank you so much for being here. I really appreciate your time and what a great conversation. Thank you for sharing
That. Thank you, Amber.
Thanks for being here, everyone. I hope you enjoyed that interview with Barbara Barbara. Thank you so much for sharing all of your expertise with us on how to do the niche research, right, and how to create lead magnets that have a ton of value for those of you out there who maybe need to create some new lead magnets tweak your existing lead magnets, or just check the ones you already have are working correctly. I hope today's episode gave you some really tactical steps that you can take to make sure that your lead magnets have value. As Donald Miller says a lead magnet to get an email address is basically like the equivalent of your customer, handing you a $20 bill. They have to be valuable and they need to create a quick win for your customers. It's a great thing to do to start talking to your customers about the things that they typically struggle with and look at how you can create a quick solution to give them the quick win, where it feels so valuable that they want to do more work with you.
Like Barbara said, it gives you just a little bit of insight into working with you and what that's like that it makes people want to keep working with you. I recently attended a Christian conference online that Jennifer Allwood hosted it and there was a speaker in her conference. And I'm sorry, I don't know the name of, of the lady. Um, but she gave a reference to a lead magnet kind of being like the apple cider in a fall festival because they always give free apple cider. Right? And so it makes you want to go buy the apple cider cause you get to try it and it tastes so good. And so I thought that was a really great analogy for a lead magnet. You want it so good, but it gets your customers to want to buy more of working with you. I hope you guys found great value in that episode. Thanks for being here and we'll be back next week. Thanks for listening to the show today, you can visit Amberglus.com to book a free discovery call to discuss my done for you copywriting and content marketing services for your business. I look forward to meeting you soon and until next time your message matters. So go out and share it with the world.