Tactical Steps To Getting Your Content Found With Wren Robbins

Getting your content found is an important piece of building your business and growing your audience. In today’s show, we speak with podcast strategist and coach, Wren Robbins, about the best way to create content that serves your audience and get it found online. Wren gives specific statistics around blogging and podcasting and explains why podcasting is the best way to get your message to the masses and the strategy behind how to do that successfully!

More About Wren Robbins
Wren Robbins is a Podcast Strategy Coach who catapults women in business using effective podcast strategies. She has a Bachelor of Science degree in Special Education, is a wife to Jim, mother to an eight-year son, and loves connecting with others. As an avid aviation family, they are following their dream of building a home on an airstrip.  

For the past five years, Wren has been the host of The Friends of a Feather Podcast where she interviews women who share their God stories each week.  Through her podcast coaching programs, women start their podcast and gain unique podcast strategy for their business.

Resources From Today's Show:

All resources mentioned are listed here: http://www.wrenrobbins.com/amber

This blog post is a summary of The School of Copy And Messaging Podcast episode #92. You can listen to the full episode on Apple Podcasts or Google Podcasts

Full Audio Transcription of this Podcast Episode:

Amber (00:00:12):

Hey there entrepreneurs you're in the right place. If you were a business owner who started your business to work less hours while making more money, but found yourself, spending too much time on copy, that doesn't convert content. That leaves you feeling like you don't know what to write or marketing that isn't making you money. This is the school of copy and messaging podcast, where we believe that entrepreneurs shouldn't have to waste their time, creating copy and marketing that doesn't grow their income. I'm your host, Amber Glus. And on this show, I'll be your guide to creating copy that converts readers to customers and marketing that improves your sales. So your business grows faster while you work less, grab that laptop or pin it's copy time.

Amber (00:01:01):

Welcome to the show today, everyone. I get to introduce you today to a lady who I've been just delighted to become friends with. Her name is Wren Robbins. Wren is a podcast strategy coach who catapults women in business using effective podcast strategies. She's a bachelor of science degree in special education. She's a wife to her husband, Jim and a mother to an eight year old son. She loves connecting with others as an aviation family. They are following their dream of building a home on an airstrip, which is so cool for the last five years. Wren has been the host of the friends of the feather podcast, where she interviews women who share their God stories each week through her podcast, coaching programs, women start their podcasts and gain unique podcast strategies for their business. You can find [email protected] or connect with her on her Instagram or Facebook at Wren Robins coach.

Amber (00:01:56):

I'm going to link all things, Wren Robbins in the show notes for you. Uh, Wren has been such a joy for me to get to know, and Wren just has this personality that jumps out and makes you smile every time you talk to her. And she just has such a great outlook on life. And you can just see and hear her love for the Lord when you are around her. And so I just have really loved being in Wren's presence. Uh, getting to know her online. She is in a group that I am part of, and I love her approach to podcasting because of course, as a podcast or I've learned a ton of stuff from watching her, you guys have to go follow rent on Instagram. She's hilarious. She does such a great job with her Instagram. Her stories are so great. Um, Wren, I aspire to be you when it comes to how you use Instagram to grow your business, because you make it look effortless.

Amber (00:02:49):

You make me laugh all the time and it's like, I'm friends with you. I mean, I know that I am, but it's also like on Instagram, I feel like I am just your best friend because of the way that you share information. You guys, one of my favorite things about Wren and she doesn't know this. So she's, she's going to get to hear this when she listens to the episode. One of my favorite things about Wren is not only her humor, but her heart for helping other people. Wren is one of those people that you just know, the second that you meet them, that she just, she just wants to help you. Like, she just, she's just like, what do you need? What can I do for you? What can I do to serve you? And I love that about her and that comes across in what she shares on Instagram, because she just shares a ton of free information about how you can grow your podcast and how you can make it better and how it helps your business grow.

Amber (00:03:43):

And so she does it though with a dose of humor and a love for the Lord that is just so relevant. So Wren, uh, I just have enjoyed getting to know you and I know my audience is going to feel the same way. Thank you for coming on the share on the show and sharing so much about podcasting and how we can use podcasting in our business. The other thing that Wren really talked about in the show that I want to highlight is we talked about how you can help get your content found. And I know for those of us who are creating content, sometimes it feels like we're creating content and we're turning it out every day or every week. And we're not really sure if anybody out there is finding it. I know about me. I know what you guys, but I know for me, I feel that way sometimes I'm like, okay, I'm almost at a hundred podcast episodes.

Amber (00:04:30):

Is anybody out there listening? And so in today's conversation, we talked a little bit about how do you get your content found? And we talk about some best practices for like show notes and transcriptions and blogs. And we talked about Pinterest. I mean, you guys, there is gold in this here. Audio file. All right. So please dive in and enjoy getting to know Wren. I think you're going to love her as much as I do. All right, everyone. Thank you so much for jumping on the podcast with us today. I have a really special guest today that I'm so excited to introduce you to, um, today we're talking to Wren Robbins and Wren is, first of all, it's such a breath of fresh air. You have so much energy Wren, and I just love the energy you bring to your Instagram, to your own podcast. Um, as I started to get to know you a little bit and follow you, it's always just so bright and cheery, and it always brings a smile to my face. So I'm excited for my audience to get to see you and share in the light that you have. Um, so first I just want you to introduce yourself, talk a little bit about your business and what it is that you do.

Wren (00:05:34):

Yes. Thank you so much, Amber, this is super fun. Like I told you earlier, your questions that you're asking me are awesome. Like I, I get all nerdy out and I'm like, I am super excited, but thanks for saying all that, but yeah, I'm Wr en Robbins. I am in the Memphis area. I used to teach kindergarten for nine years before that I was in a school for special education, uh, for three years. So I've been a teacher, um, for about 12 years. And if I did the math, right? And so you, I teach kindergarten, so we don't go too far. But, um, anyway, I used to teach kindergarten. I am married to Jim and he is, uh, the love of my life and we've been married 18 years. And then we had an eight year old son. We walked through infertility for a few years and we have him.

Wren (00:06:29):

And so we love doing stuff together. And my husband is a pilot. So at one time we had an airplane being built in our garage. It's fine, we're fine. But anyway, that, uh, that is our dream is to build a house on an airstrip, which is what we are doing. We are in a transition stage. So I love helping business owners, launch their podcast, talk strategy and give them steps from going from point a to point B. So I am a podcast, strategic coach, which means that I give them tools and they take their podcasts from not having one at all. And within a few weeks having a podcast and then having those tools and steps from going from a to B with a podcast. So I love my job and it's just super fun. I get to talk to you about it today.

Amber (00:07:28):

Well, I'm so excited to have you on and run. I didn't know that you were a teacher. And so that makes a lot of sense because I watch, um, a lot of your stuff online and you were so good about giving strategy in steps and kind of like, here's why. And here's how, and so that really makes a lot of sense to know that you, you were a teacher, so yes, that is your talent for sure. Because I can tell when I listened to your stuff, that it's easy to understand.

Wren (00:07:53):

Well, and, and, you know, with kindergarteners, you can't just do it once. Like you got, you got to visit it a few times. So, and one of my fear buttons, I did this thing years ago, I think it was like a marriage book or something. And it was like, what is your fear button? And it, mine was being misunderstood. So I never want to be misunderstood. So I am very thorough. I was thorough when I taught, taught kindergarten. And now I'm thorough as a podcast coach because I want to make sure that I get the prone across and that people actually will put into practice what I teach.

Amber (00:08:23):

Wonderful. Well, it's helped a lot with the information that I see you sharing. So nice job that you help people share their stories through podcasting. And because this is the show that talks about copywriting and messaging and how to create your message and get that message out into the world. First, can you speak a little bit to why you started your own podcast and how podcasting can help us all as entrepreneurs was sharing our message.

Wren (00:08:50):

Yes. I started my podcast as I was, I went from teaching full-time kindergarten. I was able to go part-time so I could be at home half part-time with my son, and then I could also be teaching. It was the best of both worlds. It was amazing. And, uh, I can take you to the exact spot in the road. I had just gotten off the interstate and I knew I was supposed to start a podcast and I had no tech Nicole abilities really. I mean, you know, like I I'm gen I think I'm gen X. So like, I'm not like I'm okay with the computer, with the phone, but not like anything like fabulous. And so I didn't know anything about starting a podcast, like legit had to Google and I spent so frustrating times at the kitchen table. Like I knew nothing, but when you want to do something and when, you know, God has called you to do something, you do it and you do it like full on full force.

Wren (00:09:52):

And so I remember where I was when I was actually listening to another podcast episode. And, um, and I remember hearing women's God stories, women's stories of how faithful God had been in their life and, and was, and is, and I wa I, I knew I was supposed to start that podcast. The Lord just spoke to me in my heart and said, you have friends that have an amazing story. You need to share that you need to put a, um, a light on their stories because in doing that, that's how we shine the light on the Lord. And so that's what I did. I came home and I got my day planner out later on when my son went to bed and I wrote out 35 women's names that I knew in real life. And a few were people that were kind of my dream guests. Um, and I started writing their names. I came up with 35 women's names, and many of them have been on the podcast. And so that's how it started. Like, that's it. And it's just been an amazing thing. I started the friends of a feather podcast a couple months later, and it has just been an incredible blessing and encouragement to me, but also to the listeners, because they are hearing women in the trenches doing what we're all doing and wanting to bring glory to God. So that's it, that's how I started.

Amber (00:11:18):

Well, that's a really great story. And I think something that just came to mind, which usually to me means that somebody out there needs to hear this. I think when you mentioned, you know, you knew some people who had stories that needed to be shared because in sharing those stories, that's how we can point the spotlight to the Lord. And some of the things that, that he has done to glorify him. And I want to just pause on that for a second, because I think sometimes, and myself included when I started my show, my feeling was, well, you know, my story doesn't really need to be told, or my story is not interesting, or, you know, who really cares about, um, you know, copywriting, um, because you know, it's fun for me, but maybe it's not be fun for somebody else. And so kind of those, and that can be applied to anybody's story, right?

Amber (00:12:03):

I think we always kind of think like, oh, mine is just no big deal or nobody's to want to hear this. And by sharing the stories that we have in business, in our personal lives, things that are fun and exciting that God did in our lives and things that were difficult, that we've come through, shines the light on him and his glory, and can help somebody behind us who might be going through the same situation. And there's somebody out there who has that same situation. And so I just want to pause on that for a minute. And I want to ask you in the stories that you have shared, because you knew some of these people, have you kind of seen that people tend to feel maybe a little bit, like, I don't know if my stories were sharing and how do you help people deal with that?

Wren (00:12:44):

Absolutely. And I, I can, I can think of a few people that were like, I'll share in, but I don't think I have much to share. And it has been the most impactful conversation. And these are women that are friends, like acquaintances, that I know that our kids go to school together. We go to church together and they don't have a big platform. You know, they're not the Christie rights or the Jennifer all woods, but they, they have a story. And it's amazing to see how you hear from listeners after hearing them on the podcast. And they're like, I can't tell you what a difference her story made in my life. And, and it's, it has been like, I'm almost about to be in tears because of the fact when I get to reshare that with the guests that came on the show and say, Hey, let me tell you what a listener said. It is awesome. Cause they're like, all the glory goes to God. You know, all the glory goes to God, but it is amazing to see that just that, just that boost in their life to say, yeah, I do have a story to share. And then they've gone on to share their story at other places. So that is totally worthwhile. And it's the best change to see in somebody that comes on the show.

Amber (00:13:57):

Awesome. All right, well then we're going to get tactical, so let's do it

Wren (00:14:01):

Gears. Let's do it girl. First.

Amber (00:14:04):

I know you've probably had this question and because you're a podcast coach, but you know, there's this other thing called blogging. So I got to ask you first, before we get into some of these tactical questions, the first thing is what platform is better for delivering content? Is it podcasting or is it blocking?

Wren (00:14:22):

Okay, so let's, we're going to get tactical. Let me tell you, I'm going to give you a statistic. Okay. Do you like statistics? Cause I do.

Amber (00:14:30):

I love me some good statistics. Okay.

Wren (00:14:33):

Okay, good. So, um, as of July, we are in we're in August. I'm not sure when this is airing, but we're in the end of August, 2021. So in July, about a month ago, in 2021, there were 570 million blocks. Okay. Okay. That's a lot. Um, and there are, at that time, there were 2 million podcast. So we have 50 570 million podcasts versus 2 million podcasts. And then of those 2 million podcasts, only 850,000 of them were active, which means yes, which means they might have done one episode, two episodes up to seven episodes. You know, we hear this term as pod fade after seven, they don't make it past seven episodes. And so when you are thinking about 850,000 active podcasts, that could be that, that means that they are consistently posting they're over, you know, around seven. Um, and then you look at that compared to 570 million blogs, you have to look at both of those and you have to say, okay, this is a statistic that matters.

Wren (00:15:51):

It really does. So if you're thinking of just starting out and saying, okay, I'm going to start out a blog or I'm going to just start out and start a podcast. You have to look at the numbers you really do, because if there is somebody that already has a blog, then that's something. If they're already having ad revenue from that, then that's something different. But if you're starting out 2021 looking at podcast or blog, it's overwhelmingly podcast. I mean, and, and the statistics don't lie. Like the numbers just are better. And I'll tell you, another thing about podcasting is I've come up with about 15. There's so many more, but about 15 reasons why people should or do start a podcast. And one of those is that they can reach more people. They can reach more people. They have, they can cast a wider net. And when you have that podcast, when you are interacting with audio, people will connect with you more. They will feel an intimate connection with you because of your voice. It's a proven fact. And, and it's, and so yes, I would say I am not against blogs by any means, but it would a blog without a podcast will make it harder for you to be visible in 2021. Okay.

Amber (00:17:18):

Those are really interesting. [inaudible] I had no idea how big of a difference. That really was

Wren (00:17:24):

Huge. It's a huge difference.

Amber (00:17:26):

Okay. Well, I'm glad I started a podcast,

Wren (00:17:29):

Right girl? Yes, definitely.

Amber (00:17:33):

All right. So let's get a little bit more tactical here. A lot of what I wanted to focus on is how do we get found? So it, the numbers are great to hear because that means we have a better chance of getting, getting our information, found, getting our message out there. But let's talk a little bit about how we do that. So first, can you talk about the difference with we've decided to do a podcast, but how does that work with repurposing that podcast into a blog? Um, like I do a transcription of my episodes, but then sometimes I wish I had the time to do a blog post. Does it matter? Do you do both then, or is the, just having the audio good enough. And especially when we talked about SEO and getting our information found, what's the lowdown on how we do that.

Wren (00:18:17):

Okay. I'm so glad you asked this question because a lot of people have either anchor or Buzzsprout or they have different places where, you know, Libsyn is a spot where you can host your podcast and you need a hosting site. But when you look at it, in terms of SEO, which is search engine optimization, you have to have something on your website that goes, that links back to your podcast. So it is great to have it on Spotify. It is great to have your podcast on Stitcher and apple podcasts and overcast and all the places. But if it is not on your website as well, you are missing out, you are missing out on some amazing SEO that will come your way because you put it on your website. Okay, let's go a little bit deeper. So you asked about, should you have it on as a blog, as a transcription?

Wren (00:19:15):

This is what I always suggest my clients do is that on their website, somewhere at the top or on the homepage, make sure that you have a tab that says podcast, make sure that you have something on that first page that has the word podcasts. So they know, oh, if I want to know a little bit more deeper about Amber or about rent, I can go to their podcast and I can binge it because that's what people do. We, we want to have that connection. We want to have that audio, uh, to get to know them better. And then to see if we want to either do business with them, or if we want to just listen for tips. So I always suggest to have a podcast tab at the top of your page, if at all possible. Now once you have that, then the sky's the limit.

Wren (00:20:03):

You can do what you have time for. When somebody posts on in show notes on their podcast tab, you want to make sure that you have 300 words or more, and you want your title to be key word rich for SEO to grab your podcast information from your website. It has to have those two things. Okay? So some people choose to do a transcription. And that is great because usually with a transcription, that's going to be at least 300 words or more, you know, that's going to be easy, but also when you have that, you can't forget the titles because the titles are where your keywords are going to be. And they are Google-able, they are searchable. And even inside of apple podcasts and Spotify, they are searchable. So you want to make the titles of your podcast episodes very rich with a keyword. That is your topic that you're talking about.

Wren (00:21:09):

The same goes with. When you do a show, note, blog posts, I mean, some people say it's a blog post, or it's a show it's shown us. It's really the same thing. If you think about it. So the show notes that you put on your website, it's going to be like a blog post. Okay. But with that, you can include your transcription. You can include your links, that circle back to what your business is or how your business is serving others. If it is a course or if it is a free download to get them on your email list. So I always say is make sure that you have that in the show notes, blog post. So it's, I always embed my link to that episode. I usually do a summary, um, making sure that whatever I put in there is at least 300 words for more, um, some people do a bullet point of what they talked about in episodes. Some people put in scripture that they are talking about their guests mentions, always include your guests links. There are so many things that you can include in a, in a blog post that are for show notes. Um, and it's just really up to you of how much you can put in there. But I always say the, the two things you need to remember about that is you need to make sure that your titles are keyword rich. And then also that your post, your show notes, blog posts is 300 words or more.

Amber (00:22:39):

Okay. That is such good information. I also did not know that. So I'm going to go back, look at all of my posts and make sure that we're 300 words or more. I am embedding the links of that. And I do have the show notes, but I'll have to go back and kind of make sure that all of those were 300 words or more.

Wren (00:22:58):

And if you do transcription, some people do, you know, transcriptions, it's going to hit it no matter what. And even if you do, I mean, I'm, so I'd love to include quotes that my speakers, my guests say on, uh, my show notes. And so by the time I do that and their links and bullet points of what the episode's about, I hit it, you know? Okay,

Amber (00:23:19):

Good, good advice. So I would like to, since we just mentioned that I want to kind of talk a little bit more about those S E O key word, rich titles for those of us. And I'm raising my hand here who don't really feel like they know a lot about SEO. Like I know what it is. Right. I know that it means search engine optimization. I know that I want Google to bring up my stuff when my people put something in that search bar, but how do I know my title is SEO friendly? How do I make sure that the words that I'm using are going to get me found? Do you have any tips or resources for how we can do that success?

Wren (00:23:55):

Yeah. I think it's really where you have to tap into your creative side, where you need, when you are creating a title, you need it to be expressive. You need it to be vivid. You need to be, to be captivating, but at the same time, it's got to be short and succinct. So it's really, it's a fine line between that, but let's say somebody has a podcast episode and they are interviewing somebody about planners. I had Sarah light from soul planners on my podcast is summer, and we were talking about her planners, but we were really talking about time. We were talking about time management. We were talking about goal setting. We were talking about, um, what do moms do when they are, um, you know, only have a few minutes in the day, especially if they're homeschooling younger kids at home and all the things.

Wren (00:24:46):

And so I could have put my title as, um, uh, planning with Sarah light. Okay. And that would have been fine. It's planning, but then if I wanted to go a little bit more detailed and a little bit more, um, uh, uh, um, descriptive with that, I would say how to plan your day with kids at home with Sarah light. I am going to be as, as, as many keywords. Okay. And you kind of have to think of it, like, as in Pinterest. And honestly, I would go to Pinterest. Sometimes that's kind of like a little hack is that you go to Pinterest and you type in a keyword in the search bar and see what comes up and if nothing comes up or not a lot, it try another word. So I kind of do that phrases. I mean, I D I mean, that's totally a hack that is totally, um, a kindergarten teacher going, how can I do this?

Wren (00:25:41):

And, and I don't have, sometimes my creativity is just sat at the end of the day, or even at the beginning of the day, I'm like, Lord, give me creativity because I don't have it today. Go to Pinterest, go to Pinterest and search that, those things. And that can even help you with, when you're doing subtitles for your podcast or a tagline for your podcast, um, that that can help. But yeah, go to Pinterest, go look at some keywords that you think like, I could have gone for planning. I could have say planning for moms or planning for mompreneurs or planners that help or brain dump. I mean, you can, you could really kind of go with whatever the topic is you're talking about in that podcast or you're, um, uh, listening to through, through that podcast and then go from there. So that's what I would say is just to make those, you know, make it vivid, make it descriptive, make it short, succinct, but definitely put those keywords in and go to Pinterest for a little Compaq.

Amber (00:26:38):

Yes. I love that hack. Sometimes. I don't think about Pinterest for that, you know, so that's, that's helpful.

Wren (00:26:44):

Well, and it's funny because we always think at Pinterest as a set, as a social media, I mean, at first when I did it, I was like, it's social. It's not, it's a search engine. So that's the perfect place. It's, it's like, it's a search engine, but it's with glitter, you know, a search engine with glitter, glitter is of the devil anyway. So maybe I shouldn't have said that'd be confetti. I don't know. Confetti's a little bigger, you can vacuum it up better. I don't know.

Amber (00:27:08):

That's something better. Yeah. Wonderful. So Wren is that how podcasting can help get my content found by my audiences, mostly those, those titles and making sure I've got the title, that's going to grab them. Are there other ways podcasting can help get me found by my audience?

Wren (00:27:24):

Yes. I have four ways that, um, you can get found through your podcast. Can I share those?

Amber (00:27:31):

Yes. And I love it that you're like, I have four ways. I am a teacher and I've given you four ways. I love it.

Wren (00:27:38):

They're, they're listed, they're numbered. You know, they're not, they don't have the same letter. They're not starting with the same letter, but you know, I'll have to work on that. That's something I need to improve on. Right. Okay. So let me tell you about two of my clients, my, um, uh, clients that I've had in the past. And, um, I got an email for a Vox or message, uh, for one of them. And she said, Hey, run. Um, my podcast has been out for two weeks. We still had Voxer access at that point. And, uh, she, uh, she said, Hey, somebody, um, reached out to me and said, she was, she's a health coach. And she indirect sales. And she said, Hey, she reached out to me and was like, I heard your podcast. And I love what you said. And I just loved hearing your voice and I'm ready to be a coach under you.

Wren (00:28:24):

Like, where do I sign up? Like, she didn't have, as far as I know, she might've followed her on social media, but when she heard her on the podcast, she felt connected to her and she immediately bought into what she was saying, not really bought in. I mean, she it's legit. Like she was like, I'm ready. Like, I'm ready to be a coach. I mean, two weeks in. And I'm like, um, and it doesn't always happen like that, but when you hear that and when I love when they share it with me, cause I can say, you know, this is really, you know, that intimate connection that you, that you, that you feel with that podcast. Or I know I feel it with when I listened to podcasts, I'm like, I know them. I know they're my friends, but, um, she, she really like related to her and really like was listening to her about her coaching and shoot.

Wren (00:29:13):

She was ready to sign up. Okay. Let me tell you about the second, second one, the most recent, um, one story that I have and she, um, put her trailer out into the world, her podcast trailer, which everybody has a podcast trailer. Now listen, five years ago. I didn't even have a trailer. I mean, it wasn't something that I did when I started my podcast, but she has, uh, but always a good, you know, 62nd trailer to tell everybody what your show is about, what, uh, you know, a little bit about yourself and what your show is about is great. So she had her trailer out, her podcasts had not launched yet. So we usually post a trailer three to four weeks before we start, um, you know, download or, uh, before launch day. And so that had happened and she had someone reach out to her and said, Hey, I found your, uh, website.

Wren (00:30:05):

And I'm assuming she just went to Google and typed in some, you know, nutrition coach, this isn't the other, the second one, the first one was a health coach. This is a nutrition coach. And she said, I found your website. And I found that you had a podcast on it because she had the podcast tab at the top of her screen, uh, as a tab that people can click through. And I saw that, uh, and I saw that you had a podcast and I listened and I want to know where, where are the other episodes? Well, her podcasts hadn't even launched yet. She had listened to the trailer and was so fired up about it. She wanted to know more. I mean, that's what the power of podcasting can do for your business. And I love mentioning those two stories because of the fact that, you know, they found them through their webpage.

Wren (00:30:52):

They found them through SEO. They found them through that. And so I think it's really important for us as podcasters. Yes, we're creatives and yes, we want to get our message out, but we have to back it up with that SEO content on our webpage. If we don't, we're missing out, we're missing out on new leads. We're missing out on clients and we're missing out on sharing our message with the masses. So let me get to my four things. Okay. So number one, this is something you can do. Um, and I mentioned it a little bit is make sure that your titles are searchable and that they are keyword rich. And so on Spotify, you can search for keywords. You can search on apple for keywords. I'm not sure about Stitcher because I don't have an Android, but you can search those things. Like today, we, I was in a master, we were in our mastermind together, Amber and I today was just curious.

Wren (00:31:49):

And I was like, I want to know more about biblical mindset. Like I want to, I want to search and see what's out there. So I went to Spotify and I searched biblical mindset and it pulled up so many podcasts episodes on biblical mindset. I loved it. I was like, we are soul sisters. I love that. You did that. Yeah, I totally did that. Cause I was like, I want to know what else is out there. And it was so many things. It was great. And then you could look at each title and say, okay, which one is really going to relate to what I need for my life. It could be a biblical mindset of a podcast, or it could be a biblical mindset of a mom for newer or a biblical minds that have someone indirect sales. So you can go really. You can get, find what you need.

Wren (00:32:35):

So the good thing about it is that, you know, you can search those terms. You can search and the title and it could have been in the description, you know, so definitely do that, make sure it's searchable and that you include those in your title and in the description. That's number one. Number two is obviously your website. You need to make sure that you have SEO friendly things on your website, the title and the body needs to have 300, 300 words or more. We just talked about that. Okay. So that's when we've mentioned, number three is word of mouth. I know it sounds so simple, but when you have somebody share about your podcast episode in Insta stories or on Facebook or in a text message or in a Facebook group, more people will see that and more people will listen. And so it's really neat when other people share your stuff, but it also, you can kind of look at yourself and say, okay, is there somebody, is there a business buddy that has a podcast that I just really want to just get her message out and I want to share about it.

Wren (00:33:38):

So not just having people share your things, but it's really, how can you share and lift somebody up that you think your audience could really benefit from? You know, my audience are women that are writers women that are podcasters. I have a couple of men in there too, but, um, authors. And so if I see another podcast, that's going to be beneficial to them. I'm going to share about it. I'm going to say, Hey, this is going to help. And, um, and so I, that's another thing is that how people can find you is actually how other people can find. I mean, it's word of mouth, it's totally word of mouth. It's how they can find you, but it's also how they can find other podcasts as well. So, um, word of mouth, and then the fourth one is my favorite and it is the best, um, be a guest on someone else's podcast. When you are on a guest, as a guest on someone else's podcast, that is the best way for new followers to start following your podcasts. There's many ways to do this, um, to pitch yourself, um, many ways to build those relationships and then, um, to be on other shows. So that is, those are my four tips for how we can do it.

Amber (00:34:52):

Okay. So I want to hone in on this pitching thing, because this is becoming, this is becoming like a thing, right? Like people actually do this as a service now that they will help podcasters with pitching to other podcasts or, or people who don't have a podcast will pitch whatever they do and have two podcasters. So this is becoming more prominent. Um, I probably get five or six pitches a day from people that want to be on this podcast. Um, let's talk for a second about the do's and don'ts whether we have a podcast or not, what are the do's and don'ts for pitching somebody if we want to be on their podcast.

Wren (00:35:30):

Okay. So here's a, here's a do for you. Okay. So do tell as you reach out to them, what you can, how you can serve their audience. You want them to know that number one, you have listened to your podcast. That's probably the first thing, listen to the podcast. You're pitching please. Um, and then number two is tell them how you can bring value to their podcast and how you can bring value to their listener. You really want them to know why, you know, it's not just to, to be on as many podcasts as you can or to sell as much as you can, but it really is that connection. And how can you give them value? And I would even say, when you are pitching, I'm going to go back a minute to tell you what to do before pitching. But, um, when you pitch, you definitely need to make sure that you tell about their listeners problem.

Wren (00:36:39):

Like if there is a listener and what is their problem that they continue running up against, um, is it, uh, you know, imposter syndrome? Is it lack of, um, creativity when they're copywriting? Is it, um, lack of knowledge about copywriting? Is it lack of, you know, whatever it is, make sure that they can say, okay, this might be your problem. Okay, let's fix this problem. This is how I can help you fix this. Um, and I love that you, I love that you had me on, I'm so grateful that you had me on, because you said a lot of your listeners are, um, virtual assistants who work for entrepreneurs who have, um, podcasts. And so this is serving the need for your listeners because a lot of them are dealing with podcasts and how to write titles and how to write show notes and things like that and SEO.

Wren (00:37:35):

And so I think that is super, super smart of you. Uh, not, not just because it's me. I mean, it's, it's, uh, for the, you know, very obvious reasons, but the first thing I really suggest people to do is to have a relationship with the person that you're pitching to. I know that sounds like old-school and like, um, from 1985, but I really, I like old school. I mean, I am an old soul and I like old school, so that's, that's just me. And I feel like we need to do a lot of that. Like I always, I try to send a thank you note a handwritten, thank you note when I'm on somebody's podcast or when they're on my podcast, because I feel like just those personal touches are really important and they are what is missing in 2021. And so I'm going to get my preachy pants on.

Wren (00:38:30):

I need to calm down. But what I was saying is making sure that you have that connection, your guest, like you want to make sure that they know you follow them on social media. Um, you follow them on social media, you interact with them on social media, you have a relationship. You probably have had conversations, typing conversations in the direct messages, on social media, whether it's Facebook or whatever. You've shared their things before you've shared their Facebook posts. You've interacted with them. Um, it it's, it's not much, but boy, it goes a long way. It really goes a long way. And sometimes between, if I have two people that have pitched to me and said, Hey, you know, first thing, they have to have a God story. You know, that's the first thing is what is your God's story? You know, not, I want to sell my book or not.

Wren (00:39:20):

You know, Hey, I have this health coaching that I want to talk about now, it's your story? What is your story that you want to tell that drew you to health coaching? And this is why you want to help other people is because of the story that, that God has brought you through. So, but that's what my niche is in the friends of a feather podcast for somebody else, it would be totally different, but make sure that they are, you know, that is your niche for sure. Make sure you listen to their podcasts, make sure you interact, but just taking the time to interact with them on social media, through email, if get on their email list, like it's just simple things that, um, really show you because if I have two people and they both have God's stories and I'm like, oh, they're great.

Wren (00:40:04):

I only have one spot for the season. Maybe next season, I can have her on the other one. But, um, but I'm going to look at and say, who do I have? You know, who do I have on that? Have a relate, I have a relationship with like that. I know I probably don't even need to research them and research them on social media or their blog or their website, because I already know, I already know about them because already have taken the time to get to know them, or they have got taken the time to get to know me as a person, not just, you know, another podcast to be a guest on. So that is probably my, my two biggest dues, uh don't is, do not email them out of the blue and say, I have a book and it's here and I need reviews.

Wren (00:40:51):

Can I be on your show? I legit had somebody hat's in that email to me. And it was so cringe-worthy, I just bless it, you know? And it was a man too. And I was like, okay, number one, you don't know my podcast. You have never listened to my podcast. And it's for, you know, mainly women there's none that listen, but, um, you know, it just didn't, it just didn't hit me. Right. So that was a no, that's a no for me, you know, let's go back to American idol days. That's a no for me. Um, but that, those are that's, that's the main don't is just don't come out and say, I want to sell my book or, you know, and most people would not do that. But, um, but yeah, and those are my two dues, like definitely take the time to get to know, um, and then tell them why you solve the problem for their listeners. Okay.

Amber (00:41:36):

I love that you started with solved the problem for their listeners. So, um, for those of you, who've been listening to the show for a long time. When we've talked about in your messaging, making your customer, the hero of your message. We're talking about the same thing here. When you're pitching somebody, making their audience, the hero of the message and solving the problem they need. It's not about us. When we approach somebody with how good we are, what we can do, our products, our services, people tune us out, they stop listening. It's just human nature. We are looking for, how does this help me? What does this do for me? And it's the same when you pitch somebody else to be on their show, they're looking for, how does this help my audience? How does this further the problems I help my audience solve and starting with that is what's going to catch their attention.

Amber (00:42:22):

So we talk about that in messaging, whether it's pitching a podcast or writing your own message. Um, one quick thing, before we leave this topic, Wren, that I want to ask for my virtual assistants who are helping entrepreneurs with their podcast, when, if they are writing a pitch to a podcast, or is it best that they do it as if they're writing on behalf of the entrepreneur and then say something like, you know, uh, Amber on behalf ofWren Robbins, or is it better that the entrepreneur itself actually sends it and they're just kind of teeing it up and getting it ready for them? Like, what is the, you know how sometimes it can feel like, okay, you're not even sending this pitch to me yourself. You have, you know, somebody on your staff doing it versus you doing it yourself. Like where's the line there of balance.

Wren (00:43:09):

Yeah. That's a great question because you can kind of go either way. I just feel like honesty always is the best policy. So if you are a VA and you're reaching out on behalf of someone, that's definitely up to the entrepreneur, like, does she want to do that? And does the VA want to do that? Um, or, or does the VA need to do that to take that off her plate? I know we get a lot of emails as podcast hosts and you do as well. And it's very hard to manage sometimes. So a VA to do that is excellent and that takes it off of, um, the entrepreneur. But yeah, I would, I would definitely say that honesty is the best policy and just say, Hey, I am writing on behalf of, um, she really has this message that is great. Now a little, and one thing I was going to say is to kind of make you unique from all the others is to definitely have some kind of connection with the, with the podcast host.

Wren (00:44:06):

So if they have a relationship, if the VA has a relationship with the podcast host, or if the speaker, if the guest has a relationship, I would definitely whomever that is they, it needs to come from them. So if you are a, you know, a, a guest and you have a relationship you're on Instagram with a podcast hosts that you really want to get on their podcast, I definitely do that. So like, okay, for, for instance, uh, at, at this point I don't have a VA, but that's the next step for me. But if I were, I reached out to Jennifer Allwood okay. And so I was in her, uh, inner circle coaching group. And so I reached out to her and I said, Hey, I had been communicating. I'd been paying for her, you know, coaching every month for years. And then I also had, um, interacted with her on her Instagram and DMS.

Wren (00:45:01):

Many times I've shared her stuff. Many times I had interacted with her, I'd interacted with her on the, on the, her posts. I followed her, you know, just the basic things like that. And, um, and then I pitched and said, I would let it wasn't for me to be on her show. It was for her to come on my show. So that's still a pitch. So I S I said, you know, I have enjoyed this. This is, these are who I have on my podcast. I would love to hear your story, your God's story of how, you know, you went from this from just making ends meet to now having six figure business and more, and scaling and teaching others how to scale their business. And so, um, her VA reached back out and said, yes, I will send this to her. And I will let you know what she says.

Wren (00:45:42):

And so her VA was able to talk with her and say, Hey, here's a podcast. What do you think? You know, if we can get the schedule workout, is this good? And from what I can understand, they worked, they worked it out and she said, yes, she would love to be on your podcast. So that's awesome in that, to have that, where you can say, okay, it's a VA. And then they have a closer relationship where she can say, Hey, this is somebody that's in your inner circle. This is somebody that you've, you know, I don't know if she went and checked and see if I was on social media, but either way she knew my name. And so I knew she knew my first name it's kind of unique. So she knew my first name. And then she was able to come on the show and I loved it, but it was all about just being like, Hey, this is what I, this is why I want her to come on. And, and then she said, yes. So

Amber (00:46:32):

That's awesome. Well, I, I know from following you on social media, you also recently interviewed Christie. Right. Which is really, really cool. I'm a huge fan of Christina and Jennifer. So yeah.

Wren (00:46:43):

Yeah. It was crazy. It was great. That's really great. Well, and that definitely is, you know, I always say go the extra mile go, you know, but it definitely is in between the VA and the entrepreneur, but I definitely think that the personal touch, you can never go wrong with that. You can never go wrong with that, especially if that's, who has connected to, you know, who's gonna be on the show.

Amber (00:47:07):

Okay. Well, I appreciate you spending some extra time on that because I know that's an important question for my entrepreneurs who are doing them themselves, as well as my VA. So I want to make sure that we had covered that. So let's go back to talking a little bit more tactical about the podcast itself. Um, you mentioned having that trailer episode, um, I love that I recently did that only within the last few, and that's been a huge success because it's now the most listened to episode, I guess, if you want to call it an episode. Um, and so it definitely, I can see where people are finding the show and then listening to that to see what the show is about. So I love that advice. Um, what about the intro and outro itself, a podcast? Is there like a length that we should stay within? Um, is there a certain format, like, or is it just kind of whatever fits for you?

Wren (00:47:54):

Yeah. I love talking about intros and outros. And when Amber says intro and outro of your Infamil about podcasting, the intro is just that first, maybe 30 seconds before you go into the meat of the episode. So I kind of think about it as like the salad. So it's like the salad and then the meat in the middle, you know, meat. I, I like to eat at anything. I can connect with food. Amber, I am here for, I am here for it. Right. So, um, salad is, you know, the intro, the meat is just the body, the, the main thing, the main portion that you're going to serve up to your listeners, and then the out-tro is the dessert. And, um, so I, you definitely need all three. I mean, right. We all need the salad, we need them.

Wren (00:48:47):

And so you gotta get the healthy in at the first and then the meat and all the things. But, um, but yeah, I think the intro is great if it's, you know, 30, 60 seconds long, it is the thing. It is what your, um, it is the type of content. I mean, I know you're talking with about copywriting and it is the part of copy that they hear first. Your listeners will hear it first. So you want to just hit it. You want to hit it hard. It doesn't need to be light like a salad, but you just need to introduce you. And then what they are going to learn from your podcast on the trailer. It's a little bit more, you can go up to like two or three minutes, depending on what you want to offer your listeners, but you could go a little bit longer for the trailer and go in a little bit more detail.

Wren (00:49:30):

But the intro is just every time they tune in to your podcasts, whether it be through Spotify or their another podcast app, then you are going to have them listen to what it's about, about you, introduce yourself, what it's about and what they're going to hear, um, through that, um, episode. And so I know, um, and then the, the outro is similar to it. It's just, you're just wrapping it up. You're wrapping it up where you always have a call to action of what you want them to do at the beginning of a podcast that comes out. You want to say, Hey, will you follow my podcast? We can't say subscribe anymore, because that is for paid subscriptions through apple. We can say it, but it, uh, it's for a different thing, but you say follow. And then on Spotify, Stitcher, follow me here. They can click a button, follow where they have it in their podcast app when they open it.

Wren (00:50:24):

And then, um, go ahead and follow and then leave us a review. We'd love that for the first month or two. Then I want you to just get into it and just circle back and put, put that call to action. It's going to be back into your business, whatever you want them to do that is specifically for that episode. You lay it out there and you tell them as clear as you can, of how they can find it. You can say, you can go to the show notes and find my link, or you can say, Hey, go to wrenrobbins.com/podcast to listen to this episode or to share this episode, or to get the free download of this episode, or to sign up for my course that's opening tomorrow or whatever the call to action is where you put it in. It's worth it. It's the sweet stuff.

Wren (00:51:08):

It's where the dessert is. Okay. And so that is the, um, what I would say for intro and outro. Your intro can be the same if you want to do a very, um, basic kind of, not super specific intro where you're introducing the show and keep it short and simple. It could be 13, 15 seconds, but then in the outro, you can mix it up and you can change it for what you're going to be talking about that day in the podcast episode, it can go for a variety of things and I have a free download that, um, y'all are welcome to go grab, and I'll give you that website, um, Amber, if that's okay. But, um, but yeah, it's, it's 16 call to actions that you can mention in your outro and it's, um, 16 that you can mix up, which it just takes the brainwork out of it.

Wren (00:52:00):

You don't have to think about like, what should I do? You know, let's okay, let's put in, uh, your free download here, or let's put in, um, a course or let's put in, um, this print out, this PDF that has, you know, the top three things that you need to know. Every podcast needs to have, you know, something like that, so that they have it. So it is at wrenrobbins.com/blog/cta. But what I'm going to do for your listeners, Amber, is I'm going to put everything on one page. So if they go to Ren robbins.com/amber, everything is going to be there for what we talked about, any downloads that I have, and then that call to action download is going to be there as well. But yeah, that's the intro and that's the outro. Okay.

Amber (00:52:47):

Awesome. Well, that gives me some good tips as well. Selfishly, a lot of this is actually going to help me.

Wren (00:52:53):

It's so fun though. And it's stuff that, you know, and let, unless you've been in it for a long time, I didn't know any of this when I started, you know, it's just another thing. So, um, but it, it does, it really helps. It really helps your business for sure.

Amber (00:53:08):

All right. So I know this is going to be something everybody has got questions about. Um, let's talk about our episode topics, Wren, what if we feel like talking about the same thing over and over again, or running out of topics? I don't know what to talk about. Help me, help myself when it comes to topics. What,

Wren (00:53:26):

Okay. I love this question because, um, sometimes when you're on, in your own show, you don't really, you, you miss the forest for the trees, you know, you kinda just get caught up and I do the same thing. I'm like, what should I post on Instagram this week? You know? And then I'm like, oh yeah, yeah. Oh, of course. Yeah. Okay. Let's go. Um, but yeah, if you think of your most, um, interacted blog posts, so if you have been a blogger before you were a podcaster, if you were a blogger as an entrepreneur, then you're going to have some content. And so a lot of times, if you go to those blog posts and you look at the ones that were most interacted with comments, or even things that maybe you repurposed at that time and put your blog on an email or on social media, and you realized that there was a lot of engagement on that social media post or in the Instastories when you did a, a poll or a quiz or whatever, that is a great way to start and say, okay, this is where I'm going to go with my content because you know, it resonated.

Wren (00:54:31):

So if it resonated with one or two people that emailed you back with your email list, you know, it resonated with more that just didn't reach out to you. You know? So I would say, definitely go back to your most popular blog posts or your most popular social media post. And then the second thing I would say to do is, um, really break it down, break it down into practical terms. Anytime there is a podcast and there's one podcast about con uh, just about just, you know, a question or something. And then there's a podcast about three steps to, or practical ways to, I am going to that practical one every single day of the week, because, and I don't know if that's just me or if that's a lot of people, but I love practical and the most practical cause then practical to me, it means action.

Wren (00:55:16):

And I'm not going to take action unless it's practical. So I would even say, get those blog posts or get the social media posts or whatever, wherever you have put your content. Um, even in a course, uh, even in a membership and you hear feedback on something, like we said, biblical mindset yesterday in that mastermind, you know, that was so impactful for so many of us. I mean, we were all like tearing up. It was so good. And so that is the case like, right. It was, it was so good. And so, um, so wonderful. And I think a lot of that was because she had, um, she was amazing Veronica, um, uh, H I'll have to put that in the show notes too. Cause I can't remember her last name, but it's, it's a long last name, but I know it's Veronica age, but if you, um, but she had so much good things to say about biblical mindset and she had practical steps for us.

Wren (00:56:08):

She said, here's your action. What is it going to be your action step, let's write it down. And so the fact of that shows me that everybody likes practicality. And when you see something resonates so much, that is what you need to do. Podcast episodes on that is you need to hit it and then you need to say, okay, the buckle mindset, this has got an amazing amount of attention. Okay. Now let's break it down. What is one action step you can do, uh, after hearing about the local mindset? So that's what I would say. Those two things.

Amber (00:56:39):

Okay. Well, one thing I want to share too, that has helped me only recently. Um, I kind of fell into this by accident. Sometimes those are the best things, right? Yes. Um, so I started a Facebook community and in first, can we just say, I am horrible at Facebook? Like I prefer Instagram, sorry to my Facebook lovers, but, um, so I have a Facebook group and my Facebook group is mostly for my virtual assistants who are learning copywriting because they want to add it to their book of business. And so my goal with this community was simply to have a place where people could go to ask questions to say, Hey, would you mind taking a look at my work? I need a second set of eyes on this. Well, what it has started to become is a way for people to ask questions about the industry.

Amber (00:57:24):

And recently I had a question, um, somebody sent to me and I was like, oh, that's a, that's a perfect topic for an episode that I wouldn't have thought of otherwise. And then it happened again today, somebody else asked a question and I was like, oh, that is a perfect episode. And these are things that I've been in this business for over 20 years. And so I sometimes forget, especially for people who are just starting out with copywriting, the things that they would be wondering when they're just starting out. And so sometimes I miss it because it's not something I'm thinking about every day. And it really helped me to start figuring out what is going to be useful information that I can give to that community based on the questions they have. Um, and then the same is true for my clients. The clients I have that are coming to me for copywriting, the questions they're asking me are the things that show me.

Amber (00:58:14):

Maybe I should do a podcast episode about this. Cause other entrepreneurs are probably going to ask the same question. And so I don't have, because I'm kind of new at the podcasting. I didn't have a lot of content to pull from, but it's been helping me with my clients when they ask me a question, I write that down and I think, okay, how can I do a podcast episode that would have answered that because probably somebody else is going to have the same question. So for anybody out there who maybe doesn't have content yet to pull from just starting a community. And I know some people suggest that you get into other Facebook groups. Um, that for me is hard because I feel like I get lost in those groups, especially if they're big and my questions don't get answered. And I think it's because, you know, within five seconds they get so far down the feed and nobody sees it. And so starting your own community, it can be on Facebook, but it doesn't have to be, you know, there's there's other platforms or doing it clubhouse room and just throwing a topic up. What questions do people have? Um, that leads to another question. And those are ways that you can start to really evaluate what is the content you need to provide. That was really helpful for me.

Wren (00:59:17):

And you know, something that you can do if you are already in Facebook groups, you can search in those groups for specific things. So like I would go into, and you can in the search bar, look for what other people are talking about with what, like I would type in podcasting, you would type in co copywriting in those groups that were already a part of that. We, like you said, like, if we ask you a question, it's going to be pushed down, but if we just search in there, that would be good. And I love that you brought up what people ask you, like, even in the direct messages on social media, because that is huge. And let me tell you a quick story. One of my clients, Chris and Jamie Bailey past clients, and they have the, uh, expedition marriage podcast. Um, and it's awesome and so good.

Wren (00:59:59):

And, and they're a hoot. I love them so much good godly advice, um, for marriages. But, um, what they have started doing is if they do a question box on Insta stories about their podcast, uh, not about the podcast about marriage, you'll say, Hey, what questions do you have? What would you like to see more of? They will go back and in turn and after they answer those specific questions and say, oh yeah, that's a great one. Hey, we have a podcast episode about that. So that's something that you can do on the back. End of things, too. I just thought that, that lovely.

Amber (01:00:27):

That's great. I'm going to do that. Definitely. Also going to check out their podcast cause I'm not listening to that one yet. So I'm going to go check it out. Are you okay on time for me to ask a few other questions?

Wren (01:00:39):

This is super fun. Okay.

Amber (01:00:40):

So the next thing I want to address is I've been learning a lot about Pinterest. I'm still kind of a newbie. Um, I love, love Pinterest and learning that it's a search engine. Um, so how do we get our content found on Pinterest? Is this a good way for us to be able to advertise? What do we need to know about using Pinterest?

Wren (01:00:58):

It's great. It's so good. I like you have just started scratching the surface. I mean, I used to use Pinterest for all my kindergarten ideas. I was just like, that's where I went to all the cutesy stuff, you know? I mean, that's just what it was for, for me. And then now I'm like, okay, now I have a Pinterest. I went and did a Pinterest. Um, I have a Pinterest manager coach and she is amazing ceremony. I'll put her in the district, uh, in my pod, the, uh, the link that I'm doing, but she's awesome. She offers a lot of free, um, advice and things on Instagram, but she helped me really set it up the right way as a business and all the things. And then, um, she really trained me to know what to post and get started with tailwind and all the things, but it is an amazing, amazing place to get your podcasts seen.

Wren (01:01:52):

Um, I have not done a good job with this at this point, but I, that is, uh, on my goal for the last part of 2021 is to really do a good job with this, but from what I've done, it is awesome. It's great. And, um, the fun things about Pinterest is, you know, everybody's all about Instagram reels now and, and video and all the things. And so you can repurpose some of that into Pinterest because Pinterest, um, are like the idea pins, which are the videos. And so, um, even if you do, um, what I've been trying to do is in stories on Insta stories, you know, they're 15 seconds each and people might not like doing reels, but they might, they like to share stories, you know, just, uh, just little blurbs about, Hey, this might help you with copywriting or, Hey, here's a tip a quick, you know, hot tip.

Wren (01:02:41):

And so, um, one time I took that and actually put that on Pinterest as an idea pen, I had them all saved in my phone. And so I literally just put them in Pinterest and it was great. And so, um, absolutely having your website as, you know, the link to go, don't just put things on Pinterest just to sell something or Hey, whatever, but to, Hey, this is offered to you free for my podcast. Go, listen, check this out. And then of course, they'll go to the website for the show notes and things like that, but I know that Pinterest is amazing and it's great. Um, and I want to do more of it because it is so beneficial for podcasting to put quotes on, you know, have something in Canva that has a quote that your guests said, and then put that on there. You know, quotes are great. And then you can even go to Canva and do like a video you could type in Pinterest video pin or Pinterest video. And those are also being shown, um, more as well. And so you can just put that quote inside of that, or even just the graphic of that certain episode for your podcast. So that is something that is definitely worthwhile. And I, like I said, I want to spend more time on it, but those things I hear are doing really, really well.

Amber (01:04:01):

Yeah, me too. It's on my list to learn more about it. So we're both going to be learning in quarter four out Pinterest. So I will do, I actually have a note in my podcast planning that the beginning of next year, because I wanted some time to learn it. I'm going to circle back and I'm going to talk about Pinterest. Um, so I do have, for those of you listening, I do have an episode that will be the first part of next year. Um, that is for this purpose of kind of saying, how did this go? What did I learn? And so we'll, we'll make sure that that comes out and ran you. And I maybe can talk about that again too.

Wren (01:04:32):

I hope to learn more. Yes.

Amber (01:04:35):

All right. So let's talk about show notes. Um, is there a certain thing we need to know about show notes? How do we do a description of the episode that is going to be interesting, but is it okay if, as long should it be

Wren (01:04:46):

Okay. So we're talking about show notes y'all and we talked a little bit about this at the beginning, where we're talking about how to be descriptive short, have to have your titles, um, expressive. And the thing about shownotes is you can do as minimal as you need to, and then get as elaborate as you can, as you have time for the main thing is to have those at 300 words or more, and that the title is keyword rich, and that's really what you need to do. I like do, uh, sections in my show notes. So I'm saying I do a description of the, um, or the bio of my guest. And then I go into, um, the show notes where I have quotes that my guests says. And then that's where I pull my quotes for Pinterest for, uh, for, to put into Canva and go into social media and then send back to the, to the guests later.

Wren (01:05:41):

So, um, I'll do quotes, I'll do scripture, um, anything that they mentioned. And then also, I, I love when podcasters have a certain like repeated, um, uh, segment every time, even if it's just the catch phrase, they say the tagline, they say at the end, like, I'll say we're all friends of a feather, so let's stick together, you know, that kind of thing. But I also love when podcasters have segments. And so it could be like a lightning round that you ask your guests the same questions. Every time I do a segment called eat, read love, and it's kind of off of that movie, you know, eat, pray, love. And, um, of course it has to do with food. I mean, right. And I truly, our soul sisters really are. And so I, um, I asked them, what are they eating, reading, and loving. And it's just a fun thing to have, but I put that in my show notes as well, because let me tell you there, I think that's why people visit my show notes.

Wren (01:06:42):

They want to see what they're eating, reading, and loving, and then they want to get the links. Like there's so many things that, you know, a book that we might mention, and they're probably going to forget about it and I forget about it, but if it's listed there, then they can literally click it and go to my Amazon associates affiliate link and they can get the book. And then I get, you know, what two pennies from Amazon. Right, right, right. It does. It is a great way to put I'm speaking in jest because that is not where the money is showed us, but affiliate links are great. You don't have to do just affiliate links with Amazon, but you can do those with other courses that you're an affiliate for. And that's a great way to make some money as a podcaster, but anyway, but affiliate links and then I'll put what they're eating.

Wren (01:07:28):

You know, I'll put links to, even if it's not an affiliate, um, what they're loving and then anything that they mentioned, I put that in my show notes. And then I put that, like we talked about that you do, I do the embedded link. And then, um, and anything else you want to add, but it, it really is up to you to do as much, or as little as you can, or you have time for, but if you have those keyword rich titles, and if you have the 300 words or more in your show notes, it's going to be definitely SEO friendly and then kind of have fun with it, put in there, what you would like. Like, I even put like comments, like, oh yeah, y'all did y'all hear that crazy question I asked, you know, I mean, just be creative with it, um, and have fun with it. Wonderful. Okay.

Amber (01:08:12):

Well, Wren, um, I want you to tell my listeners how they can find you where they can interact with you, but before you do that, will you also speak to my listeners who maybe thinking, um, I'm just not expert enough on a topic to have my own podcast. Um, I think this question again is, is something I really want you to address because I've watched you on social media and you do such a good job. And I have a feeling that, um, you are the type of person who is going to be so encouraging to someone out there. Who's like, I'm just not expert enough. So ready, set, go.

Wren (01:08:48):

Okay. I love this question. Uh, I would say that there is only one, you, there is only one you with your set of fingerprints that are, you have the gifts and talents that God has given you and you alone. Even if you, I used to tell my kindergarteners, even if you are a twin, you still have different fingerprints. And even if you think a lot like your biz buddy, or if you offer some of the same things that someone else does, um, I don't want you to hold back just because of the comparison factor or the imposter syndrome. So just think about how God has created you unique and how he has created you with just the right amount of creativity and just the right amount of structure and just the right amount of talents and gifts that he has given you. And he has given you a message to share.

Wren (01:09:44):

And so don't not share it. That's the two negatives. I don't think they said to do that in English class, but share it and just know that. And I'm going to say a Dr. Seuss quote, because of course, I'm going to mention Dr. Seuss. If I used to be a kindergarten teacher, uh, in one of his books, he said, today, you are you. That is truer than true. There is no one alive. That is you are than you. And so just know that God created you for a purpose and you can glorify him and make him known in, um, your podcast that you host or in your VA work that you do to support that entrepreneur that you matter, and that you have a voice. And so get out there and share it. I'm cheering you on.

Amber (01:10:33):

Oh, thank you so much, man. I love that. So where can my audience find more about you and what you do? Where can they follow you and how can they get to know you?

Wren (01:10:42):

Oh my goodness. I would love that you can find [email protected] It's W R E N R O B B I N S yes. I have two names that are birds. It's it's okay. It's fine. It's the creativity of God. Um, and you can find me on Instagram and at Facebook at Wren Robbins coach.

Amber (01:11:04):

Thank you so much for being here today, Wren. This was a great conversation and I know my audience is going to love it. I have really gotten to know you and I've enjoyed it so much. Thank you so much, Amber. Thank you so much Wren for coming on the show. I did you guys just, I mean, could you hear how fun Wren is and just like, doesn't she just make you want to smile when you hear her? I mean, she just has such a great personality. Um, she is so much fun and I can just, I can just feel the love she has in her heart for the Lord and how much she wants to serve other entrepreneurs. So Wren, I just am so pleased to know you. And I just appreciate so much that you came on the show and shared so much value with us.

Amber (01:11:47):

So thank you. Thank you. Thank you. You guys, please go show Wren. Some love, listen to her podcast, the friends of the feather podcast. She also has another podcast coming, um, that you're going to want to check out on building a podcast. So if you're somebody who wants to do that, you can check her out as well. Um, I'm going to link to her in the show notes to her podcast, to her website so that you can go, uh, give Wren some love and support her in what she does. Thank you so much for being here this week with us Wren and you guys know the drill. I mean every week, please, please, please go share your unique message with the world. We'll be back here next week. Thanks for listening to the show today, you can visit amberglus.com to book a free discovery call to discuss my done for you, copywriting and content marketing services for your business. I look forward to meeting you soon and until next time your message matters. So go out and share it with the world.