Friends, you are in for a treat today! I had the privilege of chatting with Esther Littlefield this week from the Christian Woman Business and Christian Woman Leadership podcast. Esther is a business coach for Christian women. She helps women lead with confidence, shine online, and amplify their message with her coaching and courses. We covered so many great topics today, including:
Esther offered so much value in this episode. She talks about her experience in starting and scaling her business, and how she learned to be more confident in her business and as a leader. Esther was so generous and forthcoming with her experience and advice and I know you will love this conversation!
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Hey friends. Thanks for joining me today for another episode, I have a special guest for you today, and I'm so grateful to finally get to share this episode with you. Um, I recorded this episode about three weeks ago, I guess, and I'm super happy to get to share this entrepreneur with you because I know you're going to find her so valuable. So today's guest is Esther Littlefield. Esther is a business coach for Christian women who want to stop feeling scattered and confused about how to grow their business online. She believes each business is unique and she doesn't buy into cookie-cutter solutions. Amen to that. Esther believes that it's possible to grow a business online without compromising your faith or values. And she's committed to helping her clients do this. She is passionate about helping clients cut through the confusion, find clarity and develop confidence in their marketing strategy so that they can focus on what will truly help them create a business and life that they love.
Esther resides in Maine with her husband, Scott, daughter, Kiersten, Golden Retriever, Allie, who, by the way, I adore. And there are two cats and two leopard geckos in her free time. You may find Esther enjoying a cup of coffee, exploring the great outdoors, or convincing her husband or friend to take a road trip to see her favorite band, Switchfoot. I am so happy to get to talk with Esther on the podcast, and she just brings some wonderful perspective and so much value. So here is today's episode with Esther. I hope you guys enjoy it as much as I did
Welcome to The School of Copy and Messaging, a podcast where we help you craft your message and promoted it online to build a business as unique as you are. I'm your host, Amber Glus. Professionally, I'm a copywriter marketing guru and communications professional who has spent the last 20 years in media relations for elected officials and marketing for a national brand creating copy and messaging that turns prospects into paying customers. Personally, I'm a breast cancer survivor and lover of all things, coffee, who believes that Friends is still the best TV show ever. I bring my get things done attitude here each week with episodes that share tactical lessons on how to craft your message promoted online and build a business that brings you joy and freedom, whether you're an entrepreneur creating your own message to your copywriting and marketing or a freelancer who wants these skills to increase your business, you were in the right place. Let's dive in together to today's episode. Well, Esther, thank you so much for joining me today. I want to start with just having you introduce who you are, what's your business is, and explain a little bit about why you started your business.
Yeah. Thank you, Amber, for having me. I'm so glad to be on your show today. I am Esther little fields. I am a wife, a mom. I live in Maine and my business has gone through many evolutions, but really why I started my business is I, it started out of a love for writing and a desire to just get into blogging and writing and sharing my message with the world. And I had a dream at the time of, you know, making that passive income that everybody talks about from my blog and over the years it's evolved. And I'm sure we'll talk a little bit more about that. But now what I do is I primarily support Christian women who want to be able to lead with confidence to shine online and amplify their message. And specifically, I offer coaching and consulting as well as courses for Christian women so that they can really have clarity and focus in their business and be able to move forward and achieve, you know, the life and the business that they, that they're dreaming of. So that's a little bit about, about me and what I do.
Perfect. Well, selfishly, I was really looking forward to having you on the show to ask you the questions I wanted to ask you, but I also just know my audience is going to have in their mind too. Um, I, I have followed you for quite a while and you and I have been working together recently in a coaching program that you have. Um, and so I've really appreciated the different perspectives that you have cause you have two podcasts, which first of all, like, I don't know how you do it because I have a hard enough time keeping up with one so good for you. That's a lot of work I'm sure, but I love both of your podcasts. Um, and you're you, so you have the women Christian businesswoman podcast, and then you have the Christian women leadership podcast. Am I getting those two names? Correct? Yep. That's right. Um, so given those two podcasts that you have, I know no doubt you work with women in both of those who struggle with confidence and with being a leader, what advice or actions do you recommend women take to overcome a lack of confidence and become a better leader?
Oh, that's, that's such a good question. I feel like it's one that, you know, you often create things based on where you've been. And that's basically my story with this is I lived with a lack of confidence for most of my life. I remember as a kid, I would like be preaching sermons in my head and I would have all these ideas and thoughts that I wanted to share with the world. But then I wouldn't speak to anybody unless I was spoken to first. I wouldn't, you know, um, I wouldn't share my thoughts and my ideas unless I was called on in class. And so I came out of my shell a little bit in high school and I was kind of nominated for some leadership stuff, but I never really took on that idea of being a leader until I was like in my thirties.
And so for me, this whole idea, of being a confident leader came out of my own journey of realizing like, I need to figure out how I can actually walk in my gifts. And so I started digging into scripture. I started really looking at what confidence actually means. And for anyone who is a believer and follows scripture, if you look up the word confidence, you know, in our English translation, you find the original word often can also be translated as trust. And so when I started to try to change my mindset from thinking about confidence and this idea of relying on myself and what I could do to actually trusting in God and believing that he was my source for everything that I have for my gifts, for my strengths, for anything I could do that really started to allow me to step out into confidence and into leadership.
So for someone who might be struggling with that might be really figuring out like, how can I actually step into what I feel maybe God is calling me to or whatever. I think it starts with really getting a clear understanding of, of the, of the truth of what confidence means. And then, you know, that can be digging into God's word, studying it, researching it, and finding out where he calls us to put our confidence, which is in him rather than ourselves. And that takes the pressure off, right? It takes the pressure off feeling like you have to get everything perfect. Cause that's what I did as a kid and all through my life. I have always been the, a student, the one who checked all the boxes, did all the right things because I thought that was how I would gain approval from people. And you know, if when we, but when you mess up, then what happens? You, you no longer have approval. You no longer have value or worth which isn't true, but that's how I felt. And so when I started to realize, okay, confidence, isn't about me getting everything right. It's about putting my trust in the right place. Then it's a lot easier to start walking and taking those steps that feel scary of putting yourself out there and sharing your thoughts and becoming a leader.
That's a really neat perspective. Um, I too am a recovering perfectionist. I love what I'm Jennifer Allwood for anybody who follows her, Jennifer calls them SRPs. Um, and it stands for, um, super responsible people. Oh yeah. I know we said, if you wonder if you are one, then you're just not if you are when you know that you are one, those of you out there who are shaking your head, like yeah, that's me, we check all the boxes. We do responsible things. Um, I love that perspective of learning that it's not internal, it's external in what, what God has for us because I think we do take that responsibility and that pressure on ourselves. I knew I do. That's I have to do all of these things perfectly. And sometimes I wonder if God is just looking at me wondering when I'm going to look up and stop trying to do all that on my own. It must be exhausting for him. I do it because I spend a lot of time doing that. Um, Oh my goodness. How did you start to make that shift? Like, cause it doesn't happen overnight. Um, as much as we would like it to it just doesn't um, and I know I'm still in the middle of it. Do you have suggestions for women on how you make that mindset shift to learning? It's not you and what you can do, but trusting in what God has for you?
Yeah. I think for me it started with, you know, as I said, I actually started kind of doing this, this Bible study journey where I started looking at the word confidence and thinking, what, what does this actually mean? And so that took me down the road and around the same time I had started to recognize like the things I had been doing in my life up to that point, weren't really using the gifts that I had. And the way I figured that out was I felt completely burnt out. I was completely burnt out and I'm like, what is going on? I've been doing again, quote-unquote, all the right things. Right. I went to school, I got the degree. I was working in the job. I started the side business. I was doing all these things, but at the end of the day I was exhausted and I didn't feel fulfilled.
I didn't feel like I was really contributing to the world the way I thought I could. And so I started to dig into like, what are my actual gifts? I started doing some reflection and some thinking about my whole life journey up to that point on where have I actually been? Where have I been fulfilled? What has, you know, lit me up? What has given me joy and what has actually allowed me to help other people in the process? So that coincided with the whole study of confidence for me, took me down a road of, basically stopping a lot of the things that I had been doing that were, were not my calling, not my gifts, not the things that fulfill me. And I know we don't all have the option to like, just stop doing stuff, but it's, it took me down a road of starting to step out into some of the things that felt scary, but that felt like this is actually where God's calling me.
So like I mentioned, the whole writing thing, writing had always been a part of my life since I like, as long as I can remember, I've always loved writing, but everything I was doing in my life at that time, didn't involve writing. Like I wasn't, I wasn't writing consistently. I wasn't sharing my message anywhere. So I was like, I got to start actually writing. Right. I got to start communicating a message. And when I did that, I started to get that excitement and that joy back. And, and it's scary to start taking those steps, but I think that's the other piece is that confidence doesn't happen in a vacuum. Like you have to actually start doing things. You have to change your mindset and your beliefs, which I think comes from studying God's word and, and digging into the truth. But at the same time, you also have to change your actions and start actually putting them into action.
The things that you're learning, because otherwise you never will get to grow that muscle of confidence. So hopefully that made sense. And, uh, yeah, so for me, it was a combination of actually changing my beliefs, but then also taking those small steps. And then from there every little step that I took led me further down the journey of growing in confidence and growing in, um, in leadership and having more opportunities based on each time I stepped out and took a risk, you know, God said, Oh, here you go. Here's another way you can use your gifts. And then you start to feel much more joyful and much more fulfilled when you're using those things that he has wired you for. Yeah.
That's a really good explanation. I, I appreciate that. Well, we're going to come back to more about how do you identify some of the gifts from God because I think that's such an important piece of this, but before we leave the area of competence, a lot of women, I know myself included struggle with confidence in leadership, um, but also in confrontation and in some of like the daily conversations that we have in both our personal lives and in our business. And a lot of that comes with timidity to have those conversations and a lot of uncertainty, um, maybe some of that imposter syndrome, I think around that. Um, in addition to just confidence in general, can you speak to the struggle women face in having difficult conversations and how you help them deal with that confrontation?
Yeah. This is one of the things I love to talk about because even though I have always been shy and, you know, timid, like you said, growing up, at least I over the years have had opportunities for growth. And some of those opportunities for growth have been when I've had to have a difficult conversation and it completely takes me out of my comfort zone. It takes me out of where I would like to be, but I also really strongly believe, in telling the truth and not sugarcoating things. I feel like that happens a lot and it doesn't serve anyone. And especially in any kind of leadership role or workplace, it doesn't help people when you don't tell them the truth about what's going on. So I think for us as women, oftentimes we feel like we don't want to ruffle feathers. We don't want to offend someone.
We don't want to cause problems. You know, so that's part of why we hold back or we just avoid the things that actually need to be addressed, or on the other end of the spectrum, there are those people who just love a good fight and attack every issue head-on. And they're like, we're going to get this fixed and kind of barrel over people in the process, which also isn't healthy. So I think for me, the things that I would recommend for someone who maybe this is a struggle because again, it was for me too, but I've, I've learned a few things that have helped me along the way. I think you first have to identify, like, what are the reasons that we hold back from having hard conversations and then figure out what are the potential positive outcomes that we would experience if we did those because oftentimes those positive outcomes far outweigh the hesitation of not doing it.
And then having some kind of plan to go into the conversation with so that you don't feel like it's just going to, everything's going to fall apart when you do it. You know? So I think a couple of the reasons that we often hold back, cause we don't really know when, or if we need to have a conversation. Sometimes we don't know how to bring it up with the other person. Like what do you actually say to initiate that with somebody? And if you're in a faith perspective, you don't necessarily know, what are the actual biblical principles for having these conversations and resolving conflict. And then also just, we don't know what to say. Like why like, okay, if I get into this room with this person and I'm telling them something like, what am I going to say? So those are some of the things like some of the things that I've dealt with, like what, how will I deal with this?
But on the other end, it's thinking about what are the positive benefits it's going to help often resolve the problem you're facing. You often can have healthier relationships and a healthier culture in the workplace, in the church, in your family, wherever it's happening. You know, so for me, one of the times that I've had, this is in a previous job where I was working with a coworker and she was, she had been working with a student. I was working at a school and she had been working with a particular student and then that student got assigned to me. And so it was one of those times where there was a little bit of a transition happening. And then she would be making comments, sort of underhanded comments about how she used to do things with the student, but she wouldn't ever come directly to me and say, you know, Hey, I would suggest doing this or do you have any questions?
Like she would just make these comments. And it was really bothering me. It started to really cause me like daily, you know, anxiety and frustration. Cause I was like, this is really not helping me feel good about the work I'm doing with the student. And so finally I got over myself and I just said to her, like, could we meet sometime and chat? And we did. And then after we did, I mean that whole situation changed. She stopped making the comments, she apologized for what she had done. She didn't realize the impact it was having on me. And you know, it really just made such a big difference in our working relationship. So I'm really a believer in the fact that if we, if we take the steps, if we step out of our comfort zone and do it, oftentimes it can make a big change in the relationship and, and you know, the overall, you know, the environment that you're working in or that you're dealing with.
So the way I help my students with this is I have something called a conversation, confidence formula. And I just say that you need to have the right timing. You need to have the right approach, the right spirit, the right mindset, and the right words. And if you go in with those five things, then you can often have a really positive outcome. Now we can't guarantee that because we cannot control what other people do, but at least on our end of, of how we approach it, if we go in with those things, it's, it's likely to be much more positive than, than not. And so that's what I teach inside of my calm, confident conversations, mini-course, it's just designed for Christian women who want to be able to do that, who want to be able to have those hard conversations and have a little bit of a plan and feel prepared. So I go through those five things and kind of talk through them like how, how you get there, and how you can see those positive results of those conversations.
Well, I love the idea of having a plan because you and I are Enneagram one, so we love a good place. So I love it. You set it up in a plan with five steps. That makes sense to me. So I appreciate that. And I think, um, sometimes when we have one of those difficult situations, we spend so much more time going around in the merry-go-round in our head about the situation and sometimes making it bigger than it needs to be because we spend so much of our time and energy thinking about it. We build it up to potentially be worse than it could be not to minimize the fact that sometimes it is just as bad as we think it is or worse. I think sometimes we spend more time building it up versus thinking about a plan that potentially could solve it. And that relief that comes with getting through the situation and having the difficult conversation, whether it works out or not just going through that step and having that relief, I think is such a big deal for women because we tend to pile on so much stress and responsibility in ourselves.
And I think, um, I know I can raise my hand here and say that a lot of that is self-imposed I do, I put on more of that than I need to, and that really is necessary. And sometimes just having the conversation and getting it over with can mitigate it and thinking through that plan would be much more productive than thinking through all of the scenarios I've got in my mind that never may never happen. Yeah.
Yes. And when we are doing that, we are often making a lot of assumptions about the other person about the situation, and we're not even giving the other person an opportunity to change. Like so many times, I know I've done this in my marriage, especially where I have kind of one in my husband to read my mind and know what I needed at the moment. Right. And that's putting so much weight on him and it's not fair. But if I come to him and I say, look, this is something that is hurting me, or this is difficult. Here's what would be more helpful to me? Well, now he has the opportunity to say, okay, I can do that. Or, you know, if he doesn't, then, then we got to deal with something bigger. But for the most part, when we bring those things to people like the hap, like my coworker, you know, what she realized, what the impact was on me, she was able to recognize that and then make a change.
And we had a positive outcome. Now in that same workplace scenario, I had another situation with the, in this situation. It was actually my boss. It was the person who was over me. And I attempted multiple times to have a conversation with him and to resolve some issues. And he was kind of like a micromanager and, and looked at everything I did and analyzed everything I did all the time. And that doesn't work very well for me in my working scenario. So after I attempted two or three different times to resolve that with him, I did have to make a decision to leave that job because it was creating so much stress. And, but at that point, it was like, I knew I had done what I could on my end. I had released like, so what you're saying is once you bring it out and put it into the light, instead of keeping it inside and hidden and, and obsessing and worrying, then it's, it's up to the other person, you know how they're going to respond. We can't control that. But then at least you have a better way of making a decision of how to move forward. Like, am I going to continue a relationship with this person? Am I going to continue working here? Am I going to continue serving this client? Who's treating me like crap, like after you've had the conversation, then you can make it a better, more informed decision on how they move forward.
Absolutely. That's a great point. Well, Esther, before we talk a little bit more about business, I first want to ask you about the struggle that I think a lot of women have with creating a business around their God-given gifts and monetizing something that God has given them, and doing work in the kingdom. And I, I think we, we have a lot, I know I do. I have a lot of struggles with like, is it okay to monetize your gifts? How do you do that and do a biblically, can you speak a little bit about your own situation and some of the women that you coach as well? Have you addressed that? Yeah.
Yeah. I will say that I am, I don't feel like I'm an expert in the whole biblical money mindset thing, but I do feel, I do feel strongly about this in the sense that I think it's kind of ironic because most of us, if we were to go get a full-time job, you know, and, and I had a full-time job and a part-time job at various points in my life, I never felt guilty about that. I never felt bad for expecting a paycheck for the work I was doing. You know, I was using my gifts. I was providing value and they were getting something from it. And I was helping people in the process. It's there was no mental issue with that. But then when we come into our own business as an entrepreneur or a service provider or whatever, it might be somehow there's now this mental block of getting paid for, for what we're providing.
Right. So there are three things that I want to share with this one is that I think it's okay for some of the things we are doing to purely be ministry or volunteer-based and not to earn an income. And I think when you can give yourself that freedom and you don't put the pressure on to make money from every single gift that you have, or every single idea or passion that you have, that's kind of freeing. So for me, I know that there have been times when I have tried to kind of create revenue based on a passion or a gift that I have, and I've struggled. And I think it's because that thing was just meant to be my, my gift, my service, my ministry, you know, and not meant to be a business, but I was doing that because I was, I was thinking, well, that's more spiritual.
What's more, this gift that I have over here is more spiritual than this other one. So I should probably try to monetize this one. That's I don't know. I've had some weird mindset issues too. So you're speaking my language. But when I started to say, okay, well, wait a minute, God has gifted me here. He's given me experience here. And this seems to be where I can make the biggest impact that has come easy. It's, it's flowed more easily. And I've been walking in my purpose and using my gifts. And, and when you're doing that, you know, there's nothing wrong with charging for your services and the value you're bringing. If, if what you're doing is making someone else's life easier, you're helping them shortcut something. You're, you know, taking a load off their plate. You're cutting down the amount of time it's going to take them to do something.
You know, you are providing value. And so it's, it's definitely okay to charge for that. It doesn't make sense to do all of that for free, because you need to provide most likely for your own family. You have your own things you need to, to, you know, expenses you're covering, et cetera. Uh, so it wouldn't make sense unless you were 100% independently wealthy and just decided to live your life, just doing things for free all the time, you know? And then the third thing that I think, and this is really an important reason that it's okay, is I believe clients and students and customers experience more transformation when they have to invest something into what they're getting because they don't have any skin in the game if they're getting everything for free. And so they're not as committed to the outcome, they're not as committed to the results.
And I know I've been in situations where I have done things either free or Uber cheap. And I have been so frustrated because the client on the other end, didn't seem motivated to do the work that we were trying to do. And so it, actually, I have seen more results come from when I have charged a price point that is, you know, is reasonable, but also causes the other person to have some skin in the game. So then they're motivated to get the results just as motivated as you are to bring them the results.
Yeah. So true. I think today in marketing, it's almost like there's so much free information, which is great, right? Cause it's a good place to start and, and we can Google our way to learning just about anything we want to learn. But there comes a point where you have to take that step into really investing both in yourself as a student to get something worthwhile or you're, or as a business owner and charging people, because you do lose interest with people who haven't really had this going to navigate, they get busy, they go onto the next free thing. But if they're invested financially, they're going to dedicate more time and energy to you for sure.
100%. And I am, I'm a massive DIY or like everything that I did in my first two years in business was Googling YouTube webinars, you know, podcasts. I w I am a collector of information I love to learn. And so I can, I can learn and collect information all day long, but I did not see the transformation and the changes in my business until I plopped down a large sum of money on my first group coaching program. And then I was like, Oh, my word, I better do this work. And then it was also in a format that gave me, like, step-by-step like a bigger picture instead of just, I'm collecting things from 19 different podcasters or, you know, gurus. And none of it is really bringing me the change that I need to have. Yeah.
So true. I am. I'm also a collector of information. I love a good course. I love good book or podcasts. All of the things bring it on.
I have joked before that if, if my job could just be to learn stuff and then just like summarize it for people, uh, that I would be really good at that.
Figure that out. Please let me know. We'll ask her, what about women who feel like they are made for more, but they're shy about calling that out and really claiming, and I know you mentioned on your website, you held back from sharing or gifts as well. And I think it would be valuable for my audience to hear how you dealt with that because I know they and I also deal, with that same issue. Yeah, yeah,
Yeah. So I know I kind of referred to this earlier, but, I didn't really use or share my gifts fully. I think for a long time, for a few reasons, one, I wasn't really sure what they were so growing up. I don't think that I really learned much about this and learned about how to identify, like, what are you actually really good at and all of that. So I sort of knew in my head a little bit, but I wasn't clear on what my gifts really were. And then once I started to realize the way my mind worked and some of the things like I'd be sitting in meetings and like everybody would be talking about something and I would have this completely different thought that needed to be said, but I would often think, Oh, I don't know if I should say that.
And so part of that was, I think I was afraid of being seen as prideful. So I didn't want people to think that I didn't know at all. And that I just thought I, everybody else was wrong because I do like being right. But, uh, yeah. And then I think I was also afraid of offending someone. So by stepping out and using my gifts, somehow I felt like that might, you know, put other people off for that they might be offended or that they would feel the things that they had were less important. And so besides getting clear on what it meant to be confident, I really had to spend some time digging into what my gifts were. And so just again, doing some research into looking at my, my history, my past, looking at my spiritual gifts, looking at my natural gifts, looking at the experiences that I had had a lot of these things, I started to see patterns and I started to see trends.
And then I'm also a super nerd on personality tests and things like that. And so I did use some of those and started to like, basically compile information in a way that I could start to figure out where are the places that I can make the biggest impact, you know? And then I also had to let go of caring about whether or not someone was offended. And part of that came from growing in confidence as I started to care less and less, what other people thought. And that was like, you know, what, if, if me and God are good and me and my family are good, then really, I don't really care what anybody else thinks. And I stopped worrying about that. If I say this thing, is that going to bother someone? Or is that going to offend someone now? That doesn't mean, I just say whatever I want, whenever I feel like it, there's still wisdom and discernment in how you use your gifts, but, I definitely started to step out and speak up more as I started to get clearer.
And then the more you use your gifts, the more you step into them, again, you, you get more clarity as you go. So I think that those are some of the things that I did to start putting myself out there. And I think like for me, one of the big things was starting my first podcast. That was a really scary step. But B prior to that, I had spent several years, you know, leading small groups, um, doing different things at my church where I would be speaking to people. So I had started to develop that skill of communicating and sharing a message prior to just getting behind the mic and, and having, you know, having nothing to say, like I had to build up some confidence in that particular skill. And then the more I've done it, the easier it's been. So it's a process for all of us.
Yes. The process part is the hardest part. Yeah. Cause you just want to be at the endpoint. Yeah. Don't we all want to be just at the end where it's all working, the messy middle, that's the process parts. Um, but it's important to, and I think for, for my listeners out there, cause I, I know there's a lot of people who are still in this place of like figuring out what are those gifts. And I think sometimes we first spend a lot of time researching and thinking about what are they and that's a necessary step. But I also think it's easy to get stuck in that step and say, I'm working on it. Right. I'm taking courses, I'm reading books, I'm doing Bible studies and I'm really diving in and trying to find my gifts. Well, one thing I really found is one really good way to start to know what those gifts are, is to go out and try it and take the steps and be willing to say, okay, I was wrong about that one.
I don't like it. And it doesn't seem to be working and it didn't light me up and that's okay. And now I'm going to try something else. And I will tell you if somebody looked at the last probably 10 years, really of my life, they would be like, what is this random chaotic woman doing? Like I ha cause I have a lot of passions and I know, I know other women out there raising their hand and saying, yes, that's me too. But you really have to take, take the risk, take the step of trying it and be okay with it, not working out. And that's one of the best ways to identify what are not only the gifts that God has given you but what are the ones that you're going to enjoy using the most? And I think we have gifts that God gives us that there are some that we like more than others and that's okay. And I think you just don't know that until you start to venture out and try it, which is the hard part
100% agree. And I, you know, I am, I'm a classic overthinker. I am a slow start. If anybody is familiar with the Colby assessment, I'm like a really low number on the Quickstart. I'm not a quick start at all. It takes me forever to get something going. And, but at the same time, I have pushed myself over the course of my life to just try different stuff. And I love what you just said. Like if you looked at your last years, I actually sent an email like last fall, I think listing off all the things I've done in the course of my career. And it's like this most craziest hodgepodge of things. At one point, I thought I was going to be a personal trainer. Like I was taking classes to become a personal trainer. And then I had like a test quiet. And I was like, Oh my word, I hate this.
I can not force somebody to get in, get in shape. Like they have to want it. And so I was like, you know, not doing that, but yeah, just trying stuff because then you find out, Oh wait, that actually, isn't the thing that I'm called, you know, or cut out to do. And also I think letting go of the idea that there's just one thing that we're meant to write for the whole, for. And if we don't find that one thing, then life is over like that. I, I let go of a long time ago because I've seen how there's been again, like this pattern in this thread of certain things are consistent, no matter what my job has been, no matter what my role has been. There are certain elements that have been consistent that I've always loved teaching and pouring into people. I've always loved being kind of that person that says, you know, you can do this, but I'm not a cheerleader. I'm more like you can do this and let me show you how that's my style, you know? And so you figure those things out, the more you, the more you take action.
Yeah, absolutely. And that's, that's the hard part. That's really where the magic tends to happen. So yeah. Yeah. Well, I think, um, before we kind of leave this idea, because I know, I know this is a big deal for my listeners. If we break it down into some steps, which you and I like, um, spending time in scripture, spending time in prayer, maybe making a list, this is what I did. I don't know if it's a good idea or not, but it's what I did. I made a list of what are the possible things that I think I would like. And I literally prioritized them and went down the list. I'm like, I'm trying this. Didn't like that, scratch that off. I'm trying this didn't like that, scratch it off. And I made a list of like, if there was like a one piece of something I liked, I would kind of make a note about that because truthfully, I hear people say all the time, ask the people around you, like what you're good at.
And that might work for some people. I think it's a great idea. It didn't work for me because here's the thing with people in my world. I tend to be like, I tend to be the giver. And so a lot of, and I'm, I'm very organized. And so people tend to ask me things about like, how did you structure this, restructure that, but it, but I'm not sure if I'm explaining this. Right. But a lot of people in my, in my sphere of influence, were different than my career or business influence. So what they were telling me, I was good at was like, you know, always showing up for people, always connecting and asking people how they were doing, being willing to help, but I'm like, okay, but I need some like a tangible career. Like what are my skills? People tell me what I'm good at.
And so that didn't really work for me, but what did work for me was trying things and don't get me wrong. I'm still on this journey, but this is, what's gotten me here so far is I would write down like when I, I love fitness, I'm a cancer survivor. And I value the way fitness and nutrition helped me get through my cancer journey. Um, I'm a certified group, fitness instructor. I'm certified to teach Pilates. But what I discovered was I really like those things for my personal life and my personal stress-relief right. I didn't really like as much working in a group and with other people. But what I discovered was I love making the plan. I love creating the plan and the process for people to do something. So I wrote that down and said, okay, I'm going to take that piece onto the next thing I'm going to try.
And eventually, I was left with this list. That was like, okay, like you said, I'm seeing some, some themes through this that show me what I enjoy doing and maybe where my strengths shine. So I think, um, diving into scripture, really spending some time in prayer, being willing to try new things, and maybe making a list of what worked for me, what didn't work for me. What other suggestions might you have to kind of add to that? Like if I was going to go through some steps of this, for somebody who doesn't know what their skills are, what their purpose is yet, what else would you maybe add to that? Yeah,
I think I usually recommend that people think back to their childhood and think about like, what are the things that you just did for fun and what, you know, where did you, what kind of pretend games did you play? What kind of things did you dream of being when you grew up when you were older and not that, that means that that's what you need to do, but I think those are clues, you know, in school. Did you tend to be into sports? Did you tend to be academic? Did you tend to be, you know, uh, the, the unique artist over here, you know, creating all kinds of art, like when you think about what you did, when you didn't have to earn a paycheck that kind of can free your mind up to think about, okay, maybe that's a clue for what I would like to do in the future.
Um, and like you said, too, knowing that some of the things you're going to try are just going to be for your personal use. Like I said, not every gift, not every passion or skill that you have, has to be monetized. Now, does the thought crossed my mind every time I think of a new idea? Oh, that would be a fun business. You know, I like watching birds and I have thought many times maybe I should start like a bird Instagram account, or maybe it should start some, like, make t-shirts about birdwatching because people would buy it. Right. But it doesn't make sense for me to try and start another business that should just be a hobby. It's okay. To have hobbies and to have things that you enjoy. So, yeah, I think just to add to your list, I would go back to, what did you enjoy when you were younger?
And then I think what you said about making a list and kind of marking things down, I think really paying attention to when you're in a workplace scenario or an, or your business scenario, what parts of the work you're doing light you up and what parts drain you and in any business, there's going to be things that have to get done that you don't love, and that don't let you up. So you can't find the business where everything always lights you up, but you can choose, okay. A business where most of the things you do let you up. And maybe at some point you can outsource for the things that don't versus, most of the things drain you and only this one piece of what you're doing, lights you up, you know, so really paying attention to that. And I think for me, I've struggled with doing things, doing what I want to do.
I don't know if that makes sense, but again, I've often I've often thought I gotta do the right thing or what makes sense on the outside versus what I really want to do. You know? So it took me a long time to step into more strategy sessions, coaching consulting, even though that really is what I wanted to do. I love teaching. I love helping people work through a problem and get clarity, but for a long time, I thought, you know, Oh, I, I can't do that because I'm not ready or I'm not qualified enough or all the things that hold us back. So pay attention to what you really want to do and see if there's a way you can get there.
Yeah. Cause usually what you enjoy doing is a really good clue to what your, your gifts are. We, you know, we tend to enjoy working more in our gifts and I think it's okay that it doesn't make sense to other people. Um, I know my business doesn't make sense to a lot of people. People are like, why are you starting a podcast? Like, what's the point of this? And it's okay because they don't, you know, those people are not people who listen to podcasts either. And so they don't understand that world and what that does and that's okay. Um, you know, if you enjoy it, it's a good clue that you're operating within your gifts and your purpose. Um, and I think too, it's, it's interesting because when you started your business, I know you had an episode that I loved on your podcast on the Christian businesswoman podcast that specifically talked about some of the mistakes you made in your business early on.
And that was really like, literally I was in my car when I was listening to that one and I was like, checking the box, like, yep, yep. That's me. That's me. That's me too. Like I was Esther like in my business and in my mind right now. And I know that that is really valuable for my audience too, because a lot of my audience is early on in business journey. So can you speak a little bit to some of those situations and mistakes that you had made that you would give some advice to somebody coming behind you based on those? Okay.
Okay. Sure. I don't know if I remember all the mistakes I shared on that episode, but I wrote a few down. Um, so really I'll share what I did from the beginning is what I said, okay. I want to do the writing thing. That was, I quit my direct sales business that I had had and because I was so burnt out from that, that I was just like, I'm going to go, I'm going to start a blog. And I'm, I already had a blog, but I'm going to make money with my blog. Quote unquote. That was my plan because I heard everybody on the podcast say it was possible.
So I write to
Building an audience and then trying to sell a course. Like that was the first thing I did in the online space. But looking back, I can see, I wasn't ready for that. So I hadn't tested out my material with one-on-one work or even small group work. I just went right into here's this course it's six modules long and is blah, blah, blah. And, Oh, it's so amazing. And you know, I didn't make very much money with that because I hadn't, I hadn't done kind of the pre-work to get there, to develop the credibility, to develop the material, et cetera. And then I transitioned into being a service provider and I had skills because I had learned again, DIY or I had learned how to do all that stuff and build my own website and, and grow an email list and all of that, mostly through, you know, just DIY buying.
I did take one or two courses, but not a lot. And I learned a lot. And then I said, okay, now I need to make money. So I'll be a service provider. So I just went right into, I could do your tech, I can do your social media. I can build your website. I can do all the things. And I took on clients quickly. I grew really fast, but again, I hadn't really figured out what do I want my life to look like? And so I just ended up overloaded with client work, working nights, working weekends. I mean, the amount of time I was spending on client work was insane. And so I did not really have any time freedom, so sure I was making money. But at that point I didn't have any flexibility with my time, which is kind of usually one of the reasons you have your own business instead of getting a full-time job.
Right. Yup. And then I tried, so, and part of the mistake that I made there was doing all the things, instead of choosing a few services, I didn't price myself, you know, properly. I think either I think I under-priced myself quite a bit in the beginning, like the first website I built, I think I charged $300 for, so I mean, you know, just like a lot of lessons learned. And I think when you're first starting out, sometimes you have to just learn those lessons and you do have to price lower sometimes, but there's a lot looking back that I just, I just had no idea. I had no idea what I was doing. Uh, and then I went into, so I finally niched down podcasting podcast services. I was supporting podcasters who wanted to launch or grow their podcasts. And I basically ended up with an agency model.
So I hired some subcontractors. I had team members and we were launching and producing these podcasts all the time, which was great again. And I was able to start giving myself more time freedom because I had team members now doing some of the work instead of me doing it all. But I realized I don't want an agency. Like that's not actually the business that I want. And so I ended up, you know, gradually having to kind of transition as clients dropped off. I didn't take on new ones, but again, it was often, and even now I'll still get people coming to me sometimes say, Hey, do you help people with launching a podcast? And it's like super tempting to be like, Oh, you know, because you can charge a lot more for done for you services than you can for just, you know, a, a consult.
And so, you know, there's that there's still been that struggle, but I'm like, Nope, that's not where I'm going. That's not where I want to be. I don't want to have a bunch more clients because basically I spent one summer, all the, all the client podcast launches were supposed to happen in like April and may. And all of them ended up dragging on into June, July, and August. And so I spent most of my summer just dealing with, you know, the extensions and the, now I've got to deal with the client invoices and extending this project and all of that, which just gave me a headache. And wasn't what I wanted. So that was another mistake I made was kind of shifting into a business model that other business gurus and experts said, this is a good business model for you because you've got the system set up.
I am super organized. So I'm good at like creating those workflows and those systems. But again, just ending up being in a place where this is not really my gift, right. I can do this. This is something I'm capable of, but it's not what I want to be doing. And then, you know, just basically I think that all of those mistakes kind of come, they come from not really knowing what I wanted and not really knowing, uh, you know, you don't know what you don't know when you go into the world of online business, but also they came from sometimes trusting other people's advice over my own instincts and my own gut feelings. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's something that I have finally learned is that whether I'm working with a coach or I'm listening to a podcast, or I'm hearing somebody speak at a conference, I have learned how to filter this amazing new idea or this business model.
That sounds super amazing to filter it through. Like, does this make sense for me in my situation and my scenario and that's something I'm passionate about with my own clients and students is like, don't just do everything that other people are saying you should do do it. If it makes sense for you and where you want to go and your goals and all of that. So yeah, hopefully some of those mistakes help you just maybe avoid, avoid that. I think I wish I would have trusted myself sooner than I did and actually believed that I could do what I wanted to do. And not that, you know, like I said, in the beginning I went out and I tried to build this course and have this whole audience and all that. I still think that was a mistake and I wasn't ready for that. But I think that I probably could have transitioned into more of what I'm doing now sooner, but I, I let my own fear hold me back from that.
There's something that is, that is on my mind, as you said that, and that is not every opportunity is one that you need to really grab onto and go into. And I, I think, I think sometimes I know I've been guilty of this when an opportunity comes up, we think, well, this opportunity must be coming up because I'm supposed to take it. I'm supposed to grab it and it must be what I'm supposed to do if it's in front of me. And that's a hard thing to decipher because I know for me, like the reason when I heard some of these things, when you did that podcast episode that were just resonating with me so much, and I'm just shaking my head at everything you're saying was, um, early on I had, I have a lot of friends who, you know, I'm so grateful for because they've sent me referrals and clients and some of those had nothing to do with my business, but yes, I was capable of doing the task.
So I felt like I should do it because this opportunity was presented to me. And especially when it's a referral from somebody, right. Cause you don't want to let the client down, but you especially don't want to let your, your friend or your colleague down, who's referring you in. It took me a while to figure out like I was I'm somebody who is very self-driven and self-motivated, and I found myself in this odd position of like, not wanting to do these things, not being excited to get up and do them. And I did a couple things and then I was like, wait a minute, maybe it's because this isn't for me, like, yes, this opportunity is here, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's for me. And I think what you just talked about kind of comes from that same area of like, okay, if somebody is asking me to do this and do that and do this, I should just take it because first it's clients and that's a big deal when you're starting your business, you need clients, but is it really where you want to spend your time?
And I love what you said about really thinking through the business model that fits your life. And what do you want that to look like? And sometimes we don't give ourselves the ability to think about what could be like, what if I'm going to create this business? What do I want it to be? What's the perfect scenario. And then building backwards from that, right? Does this task fit that vision? And maybe that's a good way for people to really filter, like you said, like, is this for me? What other things do you think helped you filter out some of those things? Um, like, did you have a process you went through or a list? Cause I love a list.
I wish I could say that I did, but I think it's been, I think it has just been, uh, a lot of moments of standing in the middle of my kitchen saying, Oh, I hate this. I hate this situation. This client won't stop bothering me. And they're asking me 17 questions and they're acting like I'm their assistant. And I'm like, I'm building funnels for them. You know, I'm not an assistant. And, and so really like, like really paying attention to where the friction is in the work you're doing and where, like you said that internal resistance, like I'm not excited to do this thing. Why am I so first asking yourself, why am I not excited about it? Cause sometimes there's a reason other than it's not the right type of work. It could just be that it's not the right client. Um, or there could be other things going on.
But, but for me, it's been recognizing when something is not, not in alignment. And I don't like using that word a whole lot because I feel like alignment can get sort of woo, woo. But I think for me at, you know, as a Christian, like alignment for me, is it staying in line with my values, my faith and my gifts and what I am cut out to do. And when I'm doing things that aren't in, that it, that's when I start to feel really wonky, I get really stressed out. I feel exhausted, you know? And there's, again, there's still times in my business now that I feel that way, but it's, it's not ongoing, you know, it's like a few days and then I'm over it. But when it's an ongoing thing, that's usually a sign that you're not on the right track with, with your business. Yeah.
That's a, that's really good advice. All right. Well what about the newbie, Esther? Who, so we just talked about like mistakes things that you and I have kind of been through for the newbie out there. Who's like, okay, I'm just getting started. What's your advice for that person? And to not, not only avoid some of those mistakes, but just like, what do I even do? Where do I go?
Yeah. I think what you just said, and what I've kind of mentioned before too, is just start with figuring out what does your ideal life look like? That's I have a whole podcast episode about that because that, I think if I had spent a little bit of time on that before I jumped right into like doing my services and networking and doing all of that work for the business to grow the business, I wasn't thinking about, well, what's it going to look like three months from now when I have no time for my family and I can't keep up with the work. So yeah. Getting clear, like that's my best piece of advice to start is get clear on what you want your life to look like. And I tell people, it doesn't mean that you're going to be able to have that ideal life right from the get-go, but it's the, it's what you're working towards.
It's the end role of where you're trying to head. And so, like you said, it's that vision of, of where you're going. It's kind of like when you get in a car to go on a road trip, you typically put into your phone, the destination of where you're headed instead of just randomly driving and hoping you get there or not even figure out where am I going, you know, and you end up on a dead end road where you can't go anywhere. So, you know, knowing from the start where you're headed, I think is super key. And then I think aside from that identifying what kind of business model you want, you know, so I think that there's so much talk in the online space about the whole passive income and all of that and courses and, and selling your digital products while you are sitting on the beach and, you know, somewhere tropical.
But I think that for some people, it makes sense to start out as a service provider for other people, they fit really well in like the coaching and consulting model. And then there's some people, if you don't need to make money right away, then maybe courses and digital products makes sense. So kind of just having a general idea of where you fall under those common business models and what you're trying to build and not trying to build all three at once. It's definitely, definitely a good idea. That was a mistake I made. I'm going to do all these things on it, right? Yeah.
For the more veteran entrepreneur who is looking to grow in scale, because I think you really had, like from the time I've been following you, I've kind of watched you scale. And I think there's a whole nother level of, okay, I've got, I've now figured out the business model. I've, I've got some clarity around what it is that I like to do now. I'm ready to really grow into that. What was kind of maybe some things that helped you in that season where you were able to scale the business once you figured those basic things out. Yeah.
I think that the biggest thing, or one of the biggest things aside from trusting myself and trusting God's leading in, in where I was going, instead of looking at other people was also making sure that I had the support I needed. And often that meant stopping, buying all the courses and learning more and more new things and just drilling down on what's working and, and getting customized support from a coach or a mentor that has been really pivotal, pivotal for me in that I haven't listened to as many voices as maybe I did before. And instead I just listened to a very few voices who actually knew me, knew my business, knew where I wanted to go. And then I think that the other thing that you need to do when you're ready to grow and scale is like, get really clear on your marketing strategy and your value ladder and just like the overall picture of where you're taking your business instead of constantly creating new things and just throwing spaghetti at the wall to see what sticks.
So I, I have to hold myself back from creating new things every day because I am an idea person and I, I have a lot of things. And even at the end of 2020, I had all kinds of visions and dreams of what I thought I was going to do in 2021. And more and more God kept saying, Nope, Nope. You're not going to do that. You're not going to do that. Like you're going to stay right over here in this lane and just do these few things and do them well. And when you do that, when you can figure out what are you going to do and how are you going to do it? Well, you're going to be so much more effective and your business will, will grow much faster. Yeah. So true. That's great advice. I appreciate that
Perspective. Well, I know you are a recovering perfectionist, just like I am and you're a busy entrepreneur. Um, I think a lot of us who fall into these buckets tend to have, um, a lot of trouble slowing down and, and making, making a purposeful effort to slow down. And I wanted you to talk about this because I love some of the things that you've been putting on social media about some habits that you started forming and ways that you're slowing down. And one of, one of my favorite, um, involves Allie, your golden retriever, who I adored, I vicariously live through you because I love golden retrievers, but I don't have any animals of my own. Um, and so I love seeing her daily adventures kind of talk about some of the things that you recently did in your life. Um, cause I really liked how you were, you were purposeful about finding those things that help you slow down.
Yeah. Yeah. Well, the thing that helps me with Allie and we got her last at the end of last summer, we actually had the idea to get her, to get a dog, you know, when shortly after the pandemic hit, because everybody was like, we're cooped up and we're home all the times. And we had lost our dog previously about a year before that. And I was like, okay, we're ready. We're ready for a dog. Well, it took us a long time to find the dog like to actually get a duck. But anyway, so since I've had her, it's often in the morning just getting up, getting my coffee and doing my Bible reading and quiet time sitting on the couch. And she just like snuggles right up to me and laser head on my lap and it's super cozy. And that, that helps me just to like slow down and not jump right into the day, full speed ahead.
And then another thing that I did last spring when the pandemic hit and I was feeling super cooped up and not able to get out of the house and go do some of the normal things is I mentioned earlier that I liked birds. And so I started going outside. I tried to go out every day for 20 minutes and just sit and watch the birds and not do anything else other than watch the birds. And it's amazing what happens when you do that? Like, it sounds super nerdy, but I started seeing all kinds of birds that I didn't even know, like the, the species, I didn't know that we even had them here where I live and I started seeing them and seeing the beauty and the, and the differences and listening to the sounds. And it just, it, it was a practice that really helped me to like, stop feeling like I had to be on all the time.
And so that's something now I didn't continue that through the winter cause I don't like being cold, but now that it's getting warm again, where I live, it's like I'm going to get back outside. Uh, but just that, that daily slowing down. Um, and then another thing that I try to do, and I don't do this perfectly, but I try to take time each day to write down three things that I'm grateful for. So again, just like that practice of gratitude, uh, those little things, sometimes we don't recognize that can make such a big difference when we, when we make time for those small activities that, um, that kind of force us to stop thinking about work or thinking about all the things that we have to do.
Yeah. When, when we're self motivated, I think we tend to always be willing to go to the next thing, like, okay, I got this thing done well. So it makes sense just to dive into this next thing, instead of taking some time, um, to relax and that like, that is a foreign word for me, it is something I constantly have to work on. And one thing that resonated with me when I saw you talking about your bird watching is I think I tend to finally relax when I have something else that my mind can focus on, but it's not something that is like something I have to do, you know, an activity that has to be done because I'm not somebody who's very good at just sitting and being quiet because my mind starts to roll. And then I'm like, why am I supposed to get up and do these things that are going through my mind?
So, um, the reason not resonated with me is for, for anybody else who feels like that, it was a really hard time with just sitting and relaxing or being quiet. Um, this helped me. I have, so in Colorado I have Bluebirds and then I have in summer I have about 200 hummingbirds that is literally like a part-time job to feed them in the summer tennis. Wow. So I like to go out in spring in summer and watch them in the Bluebird. So that's why it really resonated with me because I get so involved in watching them that my mind finally can turn off. And so I kind of felt like a comradery with you when I saw you post that because I'm like, yes, that's why I like doing that. Is it finally helps my mind slow down. Yeah.
Yeah. And I think knowing yourself, you have to know yourself and figure out what will work for you and my husband and I, we always have this tension because his way of relaxing is doing projects. He likes to stay home on Saturdays and do random projects. He likes to build things and stuff like that. And I'm like, I have to get out of the house to relax. It doesn't compute to him, but for me going out and going for a hike is relaxing. Because like you said, I'm doing something, but it's not something that requires my brain to be thinking. And also I'm not, if I'm at home, I'm just thinking about the fact that the dishes need to be done and the laundry has to be done. So knowing yourself and figuring out how can you fit that in? And I think that's why just going outside and sitting for 20 minutes was like, Oh, I don't have to go somewhere to find a way to relax. You know, I can do this here at home. Uh, so yeah. Find what works for you.
Yep. Absolutely. Well, I would love to know what resources you can't live without that my audience might find helpful for them too. So this can be, I don't know, technology in your business books that you kind of go back and reference to you or just your personal favorite tools that you use everyday. What would some of those be?
Yeah, so, uh, very basic, but Google drive, Google calendar, like those are things I live. I live by every day. Um, and Trello is my favorite tool for project management. It's not perfect, but it's the one that I have built my entire business in. So I'm not leaving anytime soon. And you know, it just helps me keep track of so many things going on. And then I would just recommend the book Essentialism, especially for those who are multi-passionate or who have trouble cutting things out of your life or saying no to things. That book has really been, been transformational for me in making some hard decisions on where I'm going to focus and all of that. So yeah, those are the three that I would recommend.
Very good ones. Um, I will link those in the show notes for everyone who wants to come back and reference those, um, seriously, I can't tell you how much I appreciate you and, and what you've shared. Like you have such a really unique way. I think of sharing your faith, your values, um, your business mindset. And I really want to encourage my audience, um, to go dive into everything you share. So where can they find you tell us about your courses? Um, all the things, if they want to become an Esther Littlefield, groupie, where do they go?
Okay. So my website is Estherlittlefield.com and it's actually, I'm in the process of, of a new website coming soon. That's going to actually bring everything under one umbrella because previously I've had three separate websites. So, you know, working on working on practicing what I preach. And so that's, I don't know when this episode will go out. Maybe the website will be up, but, um, on there, when, uh, when a new website is up,
There will be somewhere where you can click through to courses or resources. And I do have a podcast in a weekend course. I have confident conversations. I have a lot of, uh, resources that are lower and lower price points. And then I have also strategy sessions and other ways to work with me. So probably just going to my website and if you don't see what you're looking for, you can contact me through the contact form and just reach out and I'm happy, to answer your questions.
Perfect. Well, I think there's a lot of value in, like you said, really diving into a mentor and a coach who fits your business model and who is where you envision being, whoever you work with. Uh, they, they need to know what you want and where you want to go so that, you know, you're not, you're not creating some business model that you don't actually what I ended up doing because someone said, well, that would be a great way for you to scale, you know?
And it wasn't actually what I wanted. So yeah, super important. That is important. Well, I really appreciate it, Esther. Um, I encourage everybody to go check you out and, um, follow you online, learn more about what you do listen to the Christian businesswoman podcast and the Christian women leadership podcasts. Um, I listened to those on the regular and really valued the information you share. And, um, especially I want to let people know because I think a lot of my audience knows who Christie Wright is. And you recently interviewed her on the Christian leadership podcast. So, um, that was really good episodes. And I would encourage people to go check those out too, especially for, um, some of the advice that she gives about like knowing if some of the stuff that is on your heart is from God. Yeah. She had a really good perspective that you guys discussed as well on that. So go check out Esther's podcasts, follow her online, to learn more about her and we'll link your website in the show notes for everyone as well. So thank you so much for being here today and giving us some of your time.
Thank you, Amber, for having me.
Oh wow. Thank you so much, Esther, for being on the podcast this week, uh, what a delight it was to speak with you. I'm a long-term long time fan of Esther's. I listened to both of her podcasts, um, and she's currently a coach that I'm working with as well. So I can tell you firsthand how much value she brings to my business. And I know she could for you as well. So I wanted to make sure you got an opportunity to hear from her. Um, Esther's links are all in the show notes, so go follow her, uh, go support her podcast. I know she would appreciate it. And I know you will find so much value in those. She really is just a delight to speak with. And I value all of the information that she gives all the time in her shows as well. So hope you guys enjoyed that episode.
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